What really was wrong with mass Resurrect?

[Titanium-1686]

@Harmless-1359

Mass rez doesn’t have the same requirements for timing/positioning that Sound Barrier and Trans would.

That’s incorrect.

@Harmless-1359

All Mercy has to do is fly to a bunch of long-dead corpses.

And you just stated why.

In Mercy’s case, you at least had to evade the ultimates in the first place to get used out of Resurrect. Zenyatta? You literally want to get caught in that Graviton Surge so you can press Q among your entire team.

Taking that a step further to further dismantle your assertions…

@Titanium-1686

Resurrect during Mercy’s 1.x versions, however, was a different story. It had greater numerical complexity, it was more flexible in how it was used because it had no activation safety restrictions, its next use was unpredictable, and it was contending with other ultimates. As a result, it never had a consistent optimal execution. Its best-case scenario varied from fight to fight.

For example, if the Mercy waits to use Resurrect on four or more players every time, she’s reviving her team into an uphill battle every time; the enemy has the momentum, the positioning advantage, and the first shot. Furthermore, waiting to revive a bunch of players at once runs the risk of staggered deaths, risking a numbers disadvantage on top of those other disadvantages.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, using Resurrect to revive 1-2 players every time ran the risk of blowing Resurrect without depleting enemy ultimates first. Considering that “Helden sterben nicht!” was practically a green light for the enemy team to start activating ultimates, using Resurrect early in the fight against a loaded team without a plan B wasn’t really a good idea.

How was the best execution of the old Resurrect determined? That is where the difference in thought process between the two ability versions begins. The optimal time of use is predetermined for the current Resurrect, while the optimal use of the old Resurrect needed to be discovered on the fly for each individual scenario.

As for how the best execution of old Resurrect was determined… It depended upon a lot of variables. For starters, here are some variables and questions considered before the engagement begins:

• Living allies prior to the teamfight. Are we a full team, or are some allies dead/walking back from spawn?
• Living enemies prior to the teamfight. Does this put us at a numbers advantage/disadvantage? Is it possible that additional enemies will join the fight late?
• Ultimates held by present allies. Are there any allies I should prioritize when it comes time to Resurrect because of their ultimates?
• Ultimates held by present enemies. How many ultimates does the enemy team have at the ready? Does this put us at an advantage/disadvantage in primed ultimates? Are there any ultimates I should be weary of in particular?
• Missing enemies. Are there any enemies I cannot see/have not accounted for? Are they flanking? Where might they attack from? Am I their target?
• Allied positions. When things get hot, who can I fly to for safety? Will I still be able to heal the frontline from there, or will healing the tanks require another reposition?
• Mercy’s position. How can I place myself in a way that still allows me to support the team, but minimizes the enemy’s ability to shoot at me? If I am directly attacked, could a reach a position that gives me an advantage in that fight? Are there nearby healthpacks that I could take advantage of?
• Engagement patterns. Will the enemy get a pick and then engage, or will they fly through that choke point, ultimates blazing? If we are the team initiating, which pattern will we follow?

During the engagement, here are some of the variables the player might consider in the heat of battle:

• Midfight numbers. Are we at an advantage/disadvantage in this category? Will Resurrect give us a numbers advantage? Is Resurrect even necessary to win the fight?
• Enemy activity. How aggressive are they playing? Are they slowly gaining an upper hand, or has all hell broken loose? How aggressive is each one playing? Do the aggressive ones have their ultimates ready? Are they prepared for me to use Resurrect, or are they too blinded by their tunnel vision to realize I’m still here?
• Death locations. Are my allies close enough to one another to be revived in a single use of Resurrect? Is there a specific position I should attempt to reach to revive them all? Would reviving a particular ally provide our team with an advantage due to their location in relation to the enemy?
• Midfight ultimates. What ultimates are active? What ultimates do we still have? What ultimates does the enemy still have? How can I bait out those ultimates? What ultimates do our dead allies have? Are they in a position to use them?
• Respawn timers. Will more allies die before that first ally respawns? Should I revive that first ally now, or should I hold onto resurrect until more allies are down?
• Resurrect priorities. If I am forced to choose between reviving one ally or the other, which do I choose, based upon their hero, skill, and ultimate status?
• Enemy positions. Where is each living enemy? Are any flanking around in an attempt to kill me? Am I in the sights of any enemies?
• Safety/practicality limits. Is it too dangerous for me to have a presence in the fight anymore? Would healing my team even be useful at this point? Is it time for me to pull back and supplement healing with pistol fire?
• Post-rez outcome. Given all of the above variables, what are the chances that my team will win the fight after I resurrect them? If the chances are not in our favor, how can I tip them in our favor? Who should I try to finish off with my pistol while taking advantage of the invulnerability frames? If the post-rez fight will not be in our favor, should I bother using Resurrect at all?

There was a mind game that centralized around defining the best way to use Resurrect. It was a mental puzzle in a race against time. The mind game brought an additional layer of player engagement to a mechanically basic hero.

@Harmless-1359

The effects of Mass rez last longer than Trans/Sound Barrier (effectively permanent)

The effects being the circumvention of a respawn delay and location. It’s theoretically permanent, but finite.

It’s theoretically permanent in the same way that healing is theoretically permanent. If you top an ally off, are they really going to stay that way for the rest of the game?

@Harmless-1359

Mass rez doesn’t have the potential cost-effective counters that Trans and Sound Barrier do.

Except it does.

@Harmless-1359

Mass rez charges faster than Trans/Sound Barrier

It charged faster than Sound barrier, but slower than Transcendence.

June 28th, 2017:

"Edit: Some people were complaining that the above data is too theoretical. In that case, let’s pull up some averages. To factor in eliminations with ultimates, I will subtract 200 damage in charge per kill. All data is pulled from Overbuff, specifically the Competitive statistics. CR = conversion ratio.

Mercy:
520 damage = 520 charge.
11905 healing = 9524 charge (4/5 CR).
593 damage amplified = 2569.67 damage done by boosted target = 1927.25 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14971.25.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.21 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Soldier:76:
16085 damage = 16085 charge.
1972 healing = 1972 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1092 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 19965.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.62 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Genji:
13545 damage = 13545 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1304 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15241.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.16 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Tracer:
13135 damage = 13135 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-804 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15331.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 13.63 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Pharah:
16523 damage = 16523 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1140 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 18383.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.94 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Winston:
9887 damage = 9887 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-604 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 12283
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.93 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Zarya:
12140 damage = 12140 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1098 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 14042.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 7.49 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Roadhog
14842 damage = 14842 charge.
3823 healing = 3823 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-798 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 20867.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.43 ultimates in 10 minutes.

For !@#$s and giggles, let’s calculate the charge rate of the other support ultimates.

Zenyatta:
9621 damage = 9621 charge.
7350 healing - 2172.73 Transcendence healing = 5177.27 non-ult healing = 6834.00 charge (33/25 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 19455.00.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.38 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Lucio:
7026 damage = 7026 charge.
10322 healing = 13074.43 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23100.53.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.80 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Ana:
3668 damage = 3668 charge.
8791 healing = 8791 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15459.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.37 ultimates in 10 minutes."

August 12th, 2017:

"Don’t like arguments based off of theoretical numbers? Have some averages. All data is pulled from Overbuff, specifically the Competitive statistics. To factor in eliminations with ultimates, I will subtract 200 damage in charge per kill. Everything is measured in average/10 minutes, any damage factored in is hero damage, and CR = conversion ratio.

Mercy:
521 damage = 521 charge.
11912 healing = 9529.6 charge (4/5 CR).
542 damage amplified = 2348.67 damage done by boosted target = 1761.50 charge (3/4 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 14812.1.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.12 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Soldier:76:
15804 damage = 15804 charge.
2018 healing = 2018 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1094 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 19728.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.51 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Genji:
13316 damage = 13316 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1290 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15026.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.02 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Tracer:
12875 damage = 12875 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-756 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 15119.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 13.44 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Pharah:
16241 damage = 16241 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1106 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 18135.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.80 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Winston:
9915 damage = 9915 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-598 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 12317
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.96 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Zarya:
11973 damage = 11973 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-1082 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 13891.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 7.41 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Roadhog
14041 damage = 14041 charge.
3942 healing = 3942 charge.
3000 passive gain.
-780 charge from ult kills.
Total charge: 20203.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 10.10 ultimates in 10 minutes.

For sh*ts and giggles, let’s calculate the charge rate of the other healer ultimates.

Zenyatta:
9379 damage = 9379 charge.
7390 healing - 2158.60 Transcendence healing = 5231.40 non-ult healing = 6905.45 charge (33/25 CR).
3000 passive gain.
Total charge: 19284.45.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.29 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Lucio:
6988 damage = 6988 charge.
10519 healing = 13324.07 charge (19/15 CR).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 23312.07.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 8.88 ultimates in 10 minutes.

Ana:
3629 damage = 3629 charge.
8789 healing = 8789 charge (I am assuming the CR is 1/1, as it is not otherwise specified).
3000 passive charge.
Total charge: 15418.
Ignoring usage delay, that’s 9.34 ultimates in 10 minutes."

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_Overwatch Forums

@Harmless-1359

Mass rez doesn’t have the potential cost-effective counters that Trans and Sound Barrier do.

I wonder which is easier to counter:

• An ultimate that turns the entire team into tanks for the next few seconds, in most cases more than tripling a team’s collective health pool, adding to the team’s sustained momentum and offering no advantages to the enemy team?
• An ultimate that makes a team effectively immortal for 6 seconds save for a few specific attacks and abilities, adding to the team’s sustained momentum and offering no advantages to the enemy team?
• An ultimate that brings the team back to life after all momentum has been lost and granting the enemy team both the positioning advantage and the first shot?

Not exactly a hard decision. Resurrect was easy to counter for those who actually tried to counter it; the problem is that too many people didn’t bother trying.

There’s a reason no version of Mercy 1.x ever broke past D-tier.