What "niche" Really Means

Look into a mirror and read back what you wrote to me.

Yes it could have been less harsh but from a balance and playability standpoint it’s not good to add easy mechanics that are inherently powerful. The truth is it is an extremely thin line between strong but effective and overpowered when it comes to “simplistic” characters.

His nerf was 15%, they could have tried 10 or 5 but the reality is for most it would still probably feel too weak or too strong. If him being balanced is resting on exactly one mechanic and that mechanic is causing the entire playerbase to be frustrated from “free” power given then the choice is simple. That is why Bastion is a niche character, because the only way to make him a generalist or usable in every situation is to make him super strong.

My point you keep trying to derail us from, is that both of the times they buffed heroes for their “niche”, it made them generally good. That is my evidence that its possible they could be good in both “niche” and non “niche” situations.

Do you have any evidence that proves this is impossible?

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Me pointing out that the characters listed were OVERPOWERED is derailing? Yikes.

If you have to make a character overpowered to be a “generalist” pick then there is a problem. The characters weren’t picked because they were good at their niche, the characters were picked because they were overpowered and simply the best option for less work.

I don’t know how I can make that any more digestible for you.

Yes overpowered characters are good, not because they fulfill a niche well but because they are literally stronger than every other option. Junkrat by design was never really a niche character, he fits into the slot of a mobile ranged DPS which is meta in this game, the only problem is he needed buffs.

The builders don’t fit that format.

I am saying that if a hero becomes good at their niche in this game, they will become more generally good.

This has happened to both the niche heroes that became temporarily good.

Bastion was overpowered, not good at his niche. Of course an overpowered character is generally good.

So you don’t deny buffing his niche made him generally better, yes?

So buffing a hero’s niche by less, would make them better overall by a similar amount.

Yes, increases in power means that a character gets generally better, however that is not what we’re talking about here. You can make a character generally better at their niche but that doesn’t mean you can arbitrarily increase their niche to the point that they become a generalist character.

Bastion will always have the weakness of not being able to move while shooting and teams will exploit that weakness. Bastion became a generalist character only when that weakness was removed entirely.

There is practically nothing you can do to bastion outside of reworking him away from his current role that will make him a generalist character, that’s not how he was designed. The only reason he became a “generalist” character is by being overpowered and a must pick not because his abilities made him a generalist character.

The builders can be incrementally increased and have their general niche buffs. However they are still heavily reliant on their buildings which is their weakness. The only way you could make them generalist characters is by removing that weakness altogether which is only done by making them overpowered or them being a shadow of their former selves.

You can make a character generally better at their niche but that doesn’t mean you can arbitrarily increase their niche to the point that they become a generalist character.

I find this hard to believe if both of the buffed niche heroes got generally better, and there are no niche heroes that are not good generally in the game.

1.)Show me the example of the niche hero who was just generally better and not overpowered. Bastion was never a generalist hero, he went from niche, to overpowered to niche again. Junkrat was never really niche, just underpowered as he is a mobile ranged dps hero

2.)Propose your Symettra changes that will make her worth dropping a tank, dps or healing support without making her overpowered.

That’s the issue at hand here. Compared to all other characters(even Bastion) the builders are in a niche class by themselves. Even Bastion can have his role as a strong ranged DPS to break barriers or defend in some comps. You can’t just arbitrarily make them better enough to the point that they become generalists, it hasn’t and doesn’t work like that.

Unless you have evidence that shows buffing them by a smaller amount wouldn’t have made them better overall by a smaller amount, I cannot take you seriously.

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Look in the mirror again. Thinking that Bastion possibly could have remained a generalist and also not have been overpowered if they had chosen another number is not evidence.

I can’t take you seriously when you’re just theorycrafting with no proof, goodbye.

Just as i thought, no evidence. Good day to you too.

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Should be interesting.

It true

Yes, reworks are good.

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Doesn’t help if that’s basically one of 2 maps Bastion is good on.

Or they could just make him powerful enough to offset that weakness. That’s what low spread and headshots did before. I don’t know why they thought it was such a good idea to mutilate his damage for something that promptly got nerfed.

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a niche hero is a hero that requires a different playstyle depending on the situation at hand. Some heroes are the same on attack and defense and at all points, others require a very large shift depending on what’s going on. For example Symmetra uses teleporter on point with a long walk from spawn and shield gen on areas with a close spawn. Tracer does roughly the same thing on all point, the positioning may be different, but the playstyle is the same.

According this forum, it means:
90% of the matches they did nothing
5% of the matches they fed ult charge
4% of the matches they did something
1% of the matches they did carried
and somehow they are balanced and should be left in this way


Yea fanboys have some pretty extreme cognitive dissonance. They are incapable of liking overwatch while accepting its problems.

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