What makes a hero good (healthy, not powerful)

Exactly as the name on the tin implies. Here we’re going to have a discussion of what makes heroes good in Overwatch, and what creates a problem point.

Note that this is a discussion, I’m not god and I want to hear the thoughts of others from all ranks. I’m masters personally but I’d love to hear what people enjoy all over the spectrum. No rank shaming, because a great hero should still be at least good at all ranks for the majority.

First of all, what does a hero need in order to be good?

  1. They need to be interactive

Interactivity in this discussion is just, do you get to have a chance to interact with them in a fight? Do you get to make a decision or is it just a reaction time test to headshot to end the fight.

Can you change the fight via high ground and the like, does range change their effectiveness. etc.

A problem point in this category is Sombra. Who can hack while invisible. With how low the hack timer is, it may not be the most overpowered ability, but you don’t really have much you get to do to stop it, counter it, or really pressure the Sombra off if you’re frontlining as a Tank. You just live with it and do nothing about it.

  1. They need counterplay.

No character should just be at a complete and utter advantage all of the time. There should always be ways around a designed disadvantage. Like it or not people do one trick in the game and it needs to be designed around.

Bastion as a good example is a tank buster, incredibly high damage, but plays a fun risk reward with his kit, baiting out pushes to violently melt them. But has risk in that his turret can also be baited out and then pushed into on the cool down. Additionally, if he gets too confident, he can still be killed in his turret from pushing too much. If he delays it, his team will lose in the long run as his standard state is weaker than most heroes.

He requires patience with his kit, he can’t hold onto it forever because that’ll lose the fight, it requires mechanics, game sense, and positioning to pull off. And almost everything in the game has a way to play around Bastion. They won’t always be at an advantage but they have ways to win the interaction in solo and team based settings.

His nade is a skill shot that doesn’t directly secure a kill (though it absolutely can), for it to finish a kill there needs to be mistake or some variety of risk taken by the person it hits, or by the Bastion itself.

Is it absolutely perfect? No. But it’s fantastic even as a Masters Rein Main.

  1. Their abilities and utility need to have this individually.

An ability needs to have mitigation methods that don’t devolve to swap to this specific hero to mitigate them. For instance Ana being picked essentially forces a Kiriko on the other team to cleanse the anti. Hog back when he had a one shot would require a Kiriko, Bap, Orisa. etc. to prevent the hooks entirely. That was their job.

The worst current examples of a lack of counterplay and interactivity would be Discord Orb, and Widowmaker. A reminder that this is a measure of hero design that includes fun factor. It is a game at the end of the day. Just because they can be killed and beaten doesn’t mean they’re fine. It just means they aren’t day 1 Soujorn levels of power.

  1. They should be viable on most maps. Not all certainly because that’s impossible but most.

As it says on the tin. A lot of people will one trick (not all), but it will happen. If they choose a character that is horrendous on the majority of matches, this is going to ruin the experience for everyone. There are a lot of one tricks in top500 keep that in mind.

End of ‘good’ criteria.

What makes a hero bad?

  1. They are overpowered.

Think Hog with a one shot in OW2. Think Widow currently. Think day 1 Brig. Think day 1 Soujourn. This is going to always hurt the game because no one likes playing against things that win because the character they play is better. People in competitive games enjoy showcases of skill.

  1. They lack skill expression.

I refer to discord orb. Current reigning strategy is to set and forget it on the tank. It uh. It does move to flankers occasionally but that isn’t really a skill requirement. Zen requires skill expression to play well but his kit doesn’t.

An additional example would be early OW1 sym lock on beam. It won fights for her back then, especially on Console.

  1. Something has hypothetical counterplay, but not practical counterplay.

Sombra is the problem child of this category. Hypothethically you can block shatter or interupt it, but even in top500 this isn’t realistic. Additionally combos like EMP Shatter, EMP Bomb and so on will just win a fight and negate the possibility of counterplay or interactivity. An ability that always wins no matter what is never something that can be enjoyed when playing against.

  1. A low skill ceiling.

Having fun with a hero is fantastic, and enjoying them is something I encourage. But if a hero is only good when people don’t understand how to play against them, or just frankly lack the mechanical skill to hit them, they aren’t a good hero.

Moira is the emblem of this category. Disappears more and more the higher the rank, but is the scourge of Bronze.

She is designed to be easy to pick up and play, but it’s at the sacrifice of limiting a lot of people’s enjoyment of competitive modes. A easy to pick up hero should of course be easier to get value on. But they need some kind of conceivable way to increase the skill ceiling far more.

Rein is a good example of a low skill floor but incredible skill ceiling. Low mechanical skill required, but game sense, positioning, and playstyle make all the difference in allowing you to climb.

Nonetheless though I want to hear the forums thoughts. What makes a hero good to play, and to play against? Do you have any disagreements you want to discuss, feel free to.

And keep in mind, it’s a discussion. Actually discuss it, don’t patently ignore the other person’s points and misconstrue their arguments all the time. It benefits no one and will just ruin any consideration people could have given you and your own points. Debate and discuss in good faith.

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I had a friend that liked playing Symmetra, Overwatch switched her damage beam and they couldn’t keep up anymore.
Long story short as we have moved away from a game that was once inclusive to everyone more people will find it less fun.

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– Easy to learn, hard to master
– Fun to play with and against
– Has a unique feature it offers to the team
– Has interesting and not controversial lore
– Appeals to different players
– Has a wide / general application, not “niche”

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  • Can wallride
  • Can Boop
  • “Hit me” voiceline
  • Impactful ult
  • Can speed teammates
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What makes a good hero is 1 that is OP right out of the gate, and get minimal nerfs a few season, unless it is support or tank then you gut it into the ground

The biggest thing I look for in a hero is whether or not they are impactful/contributing to the match, which can vary from player to player of course but if a hero can do everything my character can do and better, its not fun. As a low ranked dps player, most of the time I feel like a glorified turret since tanks can dish out just as much damage and not get deleted.

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I like characters with focussed, easy-to-learn kits.

On my worst days I’m not very good with aim intensive characters (due to a processing disorder, meaning no amount of AimLabs will help, sadly.) So I’m a fan of ‘turret’ characters for DPS, and Moira/Bap for Support (although I LOVE playing Ana when my brain lets me.)

The ability to use game knowledge over raw aim to win is pretty high on my list of needs in this game.

Having mobility is nice, but not a must have. I’d take extra horizontal mobility over verticallity weirdly enough (having vertical mobility is nice but makes you easy to snipe.)

Low skill floor, medium skill ceiling (I’m never getting to GM anyway, that’s like wanting an F1 racecar to take the kids to school, it’s not practical for my needs.)

I like feeling impactful, but hate feeling overpowering. I enjoy seeing my team do well and quietly thinking ‘they’d have never done that without me.’ Facilitating a multikill as a support is just :hot_face:

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I’m guessing OP is implying “Good” as in healthy, and not “Good” as in “Powerful”.

Because should one assume the latter, the “Good” heroes in the current state of OW are all wildly broken with bloated kits (Ball, Orisa, Kiri, Bap, Ashe, Tracer, Echo) OR have heavy imbalances towards a specific niche that makes them dominate said niche (Widow, SJ, Mercy, Rein).

So should we approach “Good” as “Healthy”, I’m going to say the following:


#1. Healthy heroes don’t have infinite kit options.


#2. Healthy heroes are either designed for Mobility or Damage Output/Mitigation. Never “both”.


#3. Healthy heroes promote positioning. They can’t just exist without forethought.


AND MOST IMPORTANTLY


#4. Healthy heroes have autonomy, that rises with one’s skill, yet simultaneously raises the skill expression of interacting with teammates.


What does #4 mean?!?

It means that if one was to solo-queue, their hero option would be perfectly viable, if not strong should that player possess skill with said hero, devoid of peel or coms. Yet at the same time, that same hero would be even stronger in a setting where communication and peel exists for one to work with.

There’s 3 heroes that come to my mind that align with these ideologies:


Zarya


Lucio


Reaper


I’ve spoken about these heroes in the past, and while I do believe Lucio’s kit is slightly on the bloated side, his damage has remained fair, as has his Ult, so of all the supports I earnestly believe he’s the most healthy.


But what these heroes have in common is (mostly) limited kits, awareness checks for both self and enemies positioning, Damage that only punishes the unaware and out of position, and quality autonomy while simultaneously sporting an incredibly high skill floor in a team setting.

They are only oppressive if you or your team lets them, at which point it’s a skill issue. There’s no cross-map RNG 1-taps, no displacement from dozens of meters away, no oppressive damage mitigation, and plenty of counter-play to the heroes.

This is what makes a hero good.

Absolutely fair. I’m not completely against having something like Sym beam in the game for those that physically cannot aim (Or devote the time to playing enough to get that mechanical skill, since well a lot of people who play aren’t those that use a pc much, especially in the older crowd.

I for instance play Rein in masters, I’m pretty terrible mechanically for the rank (mechanically speaking I’m about plat or lower, with a bit of medical stuff preventing me improving too fast at it). I’m definitely a fan of characters that lessen the importance of one piece of the trifecta (game sense, positioning, mechanics), so that more people can play them.

I hope your friend enjoyed whatever they moved onto to play instead!

Big fan of this list. Emphasises variety, allowance of one tricking (since people will do that anyway), counterplay and interactivity.

I see you are clearly talking about Kiriko. Suzu boop, wall climb, speeding with Kitsune rush, and probably has one of those voice lines :stuck_out_tongue:

Heavy agree. Ram violated this a bit for me at launch by making Rein a little reductive but the current patch has resolved that issue and given both of them their own place.

As for the whole dps role versus tank problem. It’s definitely a problem at the moment, since at lower ranks the supports just aren’t able to multi-task as well and tend to pocket the tank (one of the interesting things I found while climbing is that as I climb, I tended to get less overall support as supports move to enable dps and provide their own picks as well, which is overall better but shifts to make self-sustain so much more important to learn).

If you’d like though, whilst I’m not the best dps (I don’t play it much personally), I am a masters tank and would be happy to go through a vod review or something with you at some point to give you some feedback on getting over that. Every role has carry potential and should be able to affect a match substantially.

Absolutely fair, I’m a bit rubbish with aim myself (funnily enough also really enjoy Ana and Bap), hence the whole Rein main thing though I’m still able to play the rest of the tanks pretty good in my opinion :smiley:

Absolutely. Inclusive design is paramount. Mechanical skill should not exclude someone from a game, though at some point it simply will be required to get better at it to climb into the highest possible ranks.

Valid, it has a heavy emphasis in the game but plenty of characters manage without it, though they usually need other tools to make up for it.

Fair. I’ll still argue for characters needing to be able to bring people to GM. People will one trick and I firmly believe that they should be able to climb high in the game. That being said though you never know if you’ll make GM. I was silver several seasons ago on tank (was a very casual player), but then I started figuring out a com system for myself, doing some vod reviews, and overall just learning from people in GM already and I’ve climbed a rank every season so far :D. It’s absolutely possible you’ll get there.

I do still understand, nothing wrong with not striving for top500 and just enjoying the game as is.

Perfect encapsulation. I never want to see the enemy team feel like they couldn’t have avoided it (because then I know they weren’t having fun in the game), and I never want to feel like we won purely because I, or someone else chose a certain meta character (god that was frustrating in the Soujourn meta).

Absolutely! Thanks for the starting clarification of assumption there, I’ll edit my post after I finish this reply, to clarify for future people coming in.

Heavy agree, the only exceptions of course being things like primary fires. But primary fires still need balancing. Cassidy was an example of that with changes to his reload speed and firing speed over the course of OW1.

Fair, I would argue that temporary hybrids are somewhat fine. I think Ram at the moment could work, just that his ult is the pain point. Bastion is kind of the poster child of this point where he alternates between the two with recon and turret, alongside his nade alternating between damage output and mobility.

Immense agreement.

I personally find that this applies to more than the three you mention (I’ve personally found it solo queueing as Rein, though he violates the one tap rule with charge, though I personally think the risk to reward, alongside warning gives it an exception, even if I’d like a rework to charge). But the three you mention honestly are pretty good in my book.

Personal thanks to everyone that has replied so far with contributions to the discussion. I’m definitely enjoying it so far and liked reading your thoughts, longform or shortform.

I’ll go edit the post to clarify though thanks PapiYugeSlam

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Uhh…

Not overpowered out of the gate.

Has a kit that isn’t too bloated and locks out other characters from being viable.

Easy to pick up, but requires more than pewpew to be good. (Sorry Casserole.)

Diverse aim requirements. What I mean by this is a lock on beam is fun, and for people who either don’t want to aim/track or have a hard time seeing things to aim/track. It promotes a more inclusive environment than just making everyone have to aim.

(I hate anything “meta”. It may be the most optimal but it’s not fun.)

Perfect, loving to see the desire from multiple people wanting the game to be inclusive.

Noting a distinct lack of love for the Meta and also hard-counters.

So far from my experience the heroes people accept are Tracer/Soldier types for dps. Lucio for support and Winston for tank.

Being durable is often not favored. Mobility is more accepted

I would like a tank with modular shields, even though I know people rant about shields.

This makes a good hero healthy.

no 1 shot.
fun to play
fun to play against
no BS (abilities which involve lack of skill or just end up frustrating for the enemy player)

Isn’t this all about how a character feels to play?

If you’re going to discuss that then you have to discuss how the game feels as whole first.
The characters are only going to be as good as the game lets them be.

My points for the topic:
Overwatch still has a lot of unnecessary clutter that muddles how characters feel.

A major personal peeve of mine is the sound design. While better than ow1, I think there’s still a lot of sound problems and bugs.

What I’m going to say next is asking a lot but I do believe it’s a good suggestion.

In a perfect world and with minimal hindrance you should be able to play the game while being completely blind.

IMO if the polish is immaculate it’ll open doors for heros to shine without sacrificing balance.

Edit: A lot of balance could be effected by the games foundation. Bugs, inflexible code, lack of polish, systems that simply don’t exist and would be too difficult/take too much time to implement, systems that’re bloated or cluttered, et cetra.

If the foundation is mastered for such a hero to exist you can imagine a blind hero that you had to play by only using sound.

I’m very curious about what you’re suggesting here, because I feel like this is the same sort of Niche that Sigma, Ram, and OW1 Orisa fall into. Mind expanding on this?

From my personal experience ethical heroes tend to not have everything cards (Kiriko), tend to have a niche they fall into and play with chances of counterplay, positioning and interactivity with each side (alongside a requirement to truly outplay opponents to get significant value, for instance Winston, Rein). And finally have no one shots (Earlier Hog, Widow, Early Soujourn, Ashe back in OW1 with Mercy Pocket. etc.)

Yes. And how they feel to play against. It’s about hero design (though of course this crosses over with visual design, sound design, map design, balance design. etc.)

Valid as an ambition. The better the system, the more reliably we can interact with it and make it a part of the gameplay loop.

On a similar note however, I do think that even with a perfect sound system a character like Pharah, Echo, or any of the height changes of maps makes this technically impossible as you can’t tell height on a headphone setup, since it doesn’t have the capability for you to tilt your head ingame.

Still though I absolutely get it and would love to see it improve

And this is why literally nothing the community says can ever amount to a teaspoon of credibility. Sidewalk Piglet would have survived if Flats was less whiny. Let’s be real.

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I appreciate that you’re humoring the idea as well.
Different sound pitches and sounds could identify the exact location of targets.
For example:
3 different sounds to pinpoint target locations in 3d space.
Like a sonar system.
That ability could be unique to the hero.

Of course, this would mean such a character would be extremely hard to even play, let alone master. The hero release would probably be problematic for those who want to learn how to play with a hero with such a huge handicap. The high skill floor would be the biggest issue.

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It dominated Top500, and Orisa had to be giganerfed just to prevent him walking on everyone, creating an unfun meta of specifically Orisa Hog. Where you either played Orisa and literally played 1v1 with the Hog of just denying him in every fight, or you played Hog and just tried to use hook better and that was it. That was the entire nuance of that season.

It was terrible to play against. And opening fights with an instant pick with incredibly little counterplay is not balanced. And in a 5v5 with only one tank to possible help with it is downright overpowered.

This is a discussion. We are not here to disparage others. Discuss, don’t mock.

I think the issue with the pinpoint system is confusiing, and a lack of a way to cleanly visualise the ping system unlike simply hearing more left or right. I think my answer would instead be to have the sounds be pitch shifted when above or below you. But this would need to be accessibility option more than a default because it would make the sound design, well, sound worse.

It’s an interesting problem, I unfortunately won’t be able to talk more on it because I’m going to sleep, but feel free to continue discussing it and I’ll give my input after I wake up!

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not being meta

I think there’s a lot of creative options for that problem. I’m not here to solve it though.

I’m not separating the suggestions of playing the game blind and playing a blind hero enough, i believe.
The blind hero would need to be accessible enough without sacrificing the skill required.
The game would also need to be accessible for blind players to play any hero they liked.

The biggest hurdle would be providing a sound experience that’s good enough.

Having enough accessibility and polish to be able to play the game blind would probably need to come first.
Hence my initial point I was trying to make.
The heros only feel as good and creative to play as the game allows.

Edit: I did say it’s asking a lot but I don’t think it’s impossible. Do I think it’ll actually happen? No. But every bit of refinement helps and adds up.

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