He’s not “objecting”, rather, providing counter arguments.
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But isn’t completely changing him? He still has all his core abilities. They are just swapped.
I understand it changes how he plays substantially but it also still allows for everything people enjoy to access. Just at differ times.
He accused me of being one sided when HE is the one who only brought up negatives to which I replied with the positive aspects.
This IS an objection to me pointing out positives.
he’s the weapon switch hero that can use projectiles or hitscan shots at will, that sounds like something no other hero does plus rocket jumping
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Ahh yes, that’s why you see him being played allllllll the time at highrank, even without some kind of deep investment from his tanks and supports! His pickrate up there certainly doesn’t tell a story about how his kit doesn’t work well on its own, because he’s literally a freaking stationary target - a playstyle, that ironically gets worse and worse the higher rank you are.
I enjoy playing bastion, I used to play him a lot on a friend’s account before I got my own pc. Any dps is arguably a better pick if you’re going to run him without protection from your teammates.
Why does it freaking matter? If he becomes a viable hero because of it, it won’t make a difference. That’s like saying WHAT IS SIGMA GOING TO DO DIFFERENT WHEN HE’S ADDED, HE HAS A SHIELD HE’S JUST ANOTHER REINHARDT. If there’s a power gap after those changes, they can fill it with buffs.
I get that you love him as is, but you’re just being stubborn and not offering any recommendations that actually fix his DEEP INHERENT problems. You seem perfectly happy to just sit and watch your self proclaimed favourite hero stay in the dumpster. Slightly less vulnerability isn’t going to do anything for him. Unless you made literally every one of his transformation animations almost instantaneous, made his self heal unlimited etc, he’ll be a throw pick without team protection. The amount of times I’ve soloed solitary bastions just playing freakin Ana is ridiculous.
You guys can spout “I pLaY SoLo BaSTioN jUsT FiNe” all you want but he’ll still be practically unusable at the highest ranks. If it was a good playstyle, if it actually worked reliably, you would see it being run high up on ladder and in owl.
I should have mentioned in my balance changes that I would like to see his DPS potential stay as CLOSE as possible to what it’s like on live. And wouldn’t you rather him keep sentry and tank in some form instead of one being scrapped completely - like I’ve seen from numerous posts on these forums.
Honestly I’m pretty comfortable where bastion is at. If anything I would scrap his ult for something else. Most of the time his ult can get him killed before it helps him.
Okay? You said this was a discussion. I see no problems with people objecting to your posts. That’s how you disagree. If you consider counter arguments “objections”, than okay. Sure. Be my guest.
He’s saying that there are also negatives which you aren’t really acknowledging in your post. What does your rework do that outweighs the negatives with it? What are those negatives? Tell us how those positives are more substantial than the negatives.
“Different times” when you say it THAT way, it sounds perfectly fine.
But Bastion is now only going to be in Sentry for, what, 10% of the game if you’re lucky? That’s a huge change of pace from what we have. Many players’ reasons for loving bastion IS SENTRY. Putting that on a huge cooldown is going to disenfranchise them, no matter how you put it.
That’s a super weak argument. Those weapons have little to nothing unique about them, they’re all just echoes of other heroes’ weapons. All other heroes have very unique weapons, but I guess we leave bastion out of that because we want perfect balance.
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Bastion has one of the lowest spreads of all hitscan weapon with spread, a decent dps and relatively high ammo with a very good falloff for a spread weapon
Tank form has about twice the projectile speed as the other 2, with less self damage, more self knockback a larger area of effect and a slower firing speed, it is pretty unique
It matters because there’s no point in having a hero that just does what other heroes do. It’s not unique, it’s not fun, and it’s not interesting. Heroes have to be more than just balanced. Sigma is able to do so much more than just block damage. He has a completely unique stun, a super flexible barrier, and an interesting damage absorption ability that rewards taking risks. But this new bastion just throws a bunch of heroes together without really adding anything new or interesting to them.
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You really think that that would be balanced when it’s always accessible for Bastion? You’d have to provide compensation nerfs, and that would probably just make it like Pharah.
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The issue is this. Here is the timeline.
- I post a hypothetical. Mentioning neither negatives or positives. Not stating that this idea is certainly the answer. Just a question to start discussion.
- He posts a response with objections. Listing negatives. This is fine. I understood the concern.
- I offer a small list of positives. This should also be fine.
- He says the positives aren’t good enough. A valid opinion.
- Follows up with accusations of me being one sided when he literally only listed negatives earlier?
Bastion’s ult could be considered the “left overs” to what was once his very promising and cool ult where bastion would actually fly and drop bombs during his ult…
…but if I’m understanding correctly, it was deemed too powerful and didn’t even make it out of beta.
What’s the problem?
When you don’t agrees counter arguments, it makes you look one sided.
He is addressing your arguments by dissecting them and pointing out their flaws.
I don’t know what you want me to tell you. This isn’t even what I was replying to. You were getting mad that he was objecting for some reason.
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I just find it ironic that you keep parroting that line when those things are literally already in his kit.
Alternatively, they could make it extremely original by making his ult actually have a resource meter. You could dole out as much sentry time as you’d like (within the Max duration) without being confined to the normal 6-7 seconds etc.
I just think that none of his actual problems will be addressed if we keep tacking on silly small survability buffs. He needs some kind of revamp that incentivises being self sufficient, like pretty much every other DPS is.
with a lower damage yes, which is why i didnt mention the fact directs 1 shot, have it deal about 90-100 area damage, but with less falloff over the area and itll provide a unique form of aoe damage different from pharah, keep self knockback the same and he’ll also have the unique playstyle of rocket jumping no other character has, tank mode as the regular ability has a lot more potential for uniqueness than firing 3-10 times the amount of bullets per second as the average hitscan character with a high dps, without causing the issue of being overbearing allowing for fair balance for bastion instead of just leaving him in a trashcan because niche and if we buff him he becomes op for low ranks so dont
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YES! EXACTLY!
This rework isn’t solving any of his current problems. Instead it’s just shuffling them around without doing anything to them.
That WAS one of the points I made earlier.
This rework doesn’t address any of his current problems either.
This rework that I made gives him some self defense and more independence. Isn’t that what you want? Self sufficiency?
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It does though? Tank form is infinitely less fragile than sentry simply because you can move man.
They could increase the fire rate (obv reduce Max damage), even increase the amount of ammo you have during it. You have base kit mobility, increased movement speed etc on demand. The playstyle you describe would benefit from that.
Compared to sentry form at higher ranks. You jump into it (with your playstyle in mind), maybe even with a mercy pocket. The slightest bit of communication from the enemy team and you’ve most likely just been stunned out of sentry and shot to death by 3 people.
I would love sentry to work as you describe, but it just doesn’t. He’s always going to lag behind everyone else when he’s so sluggish, and only gets any value from being completely stationary.
How does making Sentry an ult fix any of these problems.
oh wait. It doesn’t.
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Because I didn’t think it was necessary as the positives were so minor.
It’s overwhelmingly negative that listing positives would be just a pointless distraction.
They’re still playing the hero better if Bastion isn’t all over highranked.
And yes, the rare occasion Bastion is used on high ranks it is without any more investments from tank and supports than any other DPS hero gets at that rank.
Also got more health and resistance.
Not enough in Recon mode but in sentry, enough.
No, loads beat Recon’s spread. It should be noted that Bastion’s recon spread is misreported on wikis, it’s more like 1.6 degrees than 1.25 degrees. Soldier now has zero spread and easily compensated recoil.
Bastion’s spread is only surpassed by DPS hitscan such as Sombra or Reaper.
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By making it significantly stronger under its new category of ult. Something you cannot do to sentry if it remains part of his standard kit.
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Then why object to me listing them? Why accuse me of being one sided just because I did not relist your negatives?