What happened in Zürich

I was just on another post when this question really dug into me.
This is one of Overwatch’s most important Happening in the timeline and we know absolutely nothing about it.

At first the theory that was assumed to be true was that Gabriel Reyes, after being in Jack’s shadow for too long ( his once best friend, now rival ) took advantage of the hectic situation Overwatch was in and started a riot, a mutiny, because he still saw that Jack took the SC position from him.

But after Jeff revealed that they were infact not even just besties, but war buddies ( they loved eachother :broken_heart: ) and that Gabriel was glad Jack took the position instead AND that Jack actually indulged Gabe in his Blackwatch-y was too much.
All this poked holes into that assumed canon and we are left knowing nothing… about the literal fall of Overwatch.

If we were to believe that Reaper made Zürich happen, even accidentally, then why in Old Soldiers does he put the blame on anyone but himself? He acts as if Overwatch, in it’s entirity, abandoned him. And that possibly, with ‘he’ ( since he’s talking to Ana and going by this & in-game interaction he still holds a soft heart for her ) Gabriel also thinks/believes Jack abandoned him.

This doesn’t make any sense, Reaper’s motivations still evade me and until we know what controversy Blackwatch committed and what exactly happened in Zürich there’s just no way to know why once bossom friends and war bros are now throwing eachother down and trying to kill one other.
( Failing miserably too, Reaper had 76 at his mercy, completely by surprise, and decided to shoot him in the back instead of the exposed head. Reaper is bad at killing former allies honestly… :eyes: )

Reaper remains an utter mystery if you delve past the Look-At-Me-I-Dress-Like-A-Villain bit and you find that there’s nothing there. You don’t know why he goes from war hero, beloved friend & mentor to this.
And the fact that we have no idea what happened at Zürich, the most important bit of history to the game…
It’s suspicious.
There must be something more there, right?

EDIT: I’ve seen people still cling to the Reyes was mad about the position getting passed over him,
go to twitter and add:

/autolikescake/status/928528808445014019

then judge for yourself if he was when this was said

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I’m not buying the whole “they’re still great buddies” bit. Gabe would never join up with Talon if that were the case.

I still think he was bitter over being passed up for promotion and it finally came to a head with that incident.

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I’d honestly believe that some third party blew up Zurich, and then twisted it.

Something (Moira) could’ve manipulated him in to joining up. If he joined Talon, they’d keep him stable.

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i’m not saying they still were i’m saying that they have been really close throughout the OW era and then Zürich changed everything

and the gabriel being angry over been passed has been debunked! the word of god himself said that Gabriel was actually glad that he didn’t land the SC position since it would limit him and he doesn’t like the spotlight
a man like Gabriel would thrive in blackwatch however

what moira also ‘did to’ him was to help with an already existing condition, but i think that instead of solving it moira amplified it ( to sate her endless curiousity ofc ) and we can see gabriel being terrified of the smoke literally coming off his fading fingers

they were best friends, zürich happened, now they’re enemies

i need to know Why

( also just like sombra he could be using talon for resource & self-gain, after all if Talon had a hand into destroying what he & jack made it’d be ironic justice to take Talon out from within )

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Huh… moving on…

then why in Old Soldiers does he put the blame on anyone but himself? He acts as if Overwatch, in it’s entirity, abandoned him.

They did, Reaper is simply stating the truth.

Reaper’s motivations still evade me

Reaper’s motivations are to destroy the last remnants of Overwatch and start a new conflict (Talon’s motivations). Perhaps you were referring to Gabriel Reyes’ motivations.

Reaper had 76 at his mercy, completely by surprise, and decided to shoot him in the back instead of the exposed head. Reaper is bad at killing former allies honestly

Perhaps he doesn’t want to kill him just yet. Perhaps he has bigger plans for Soldier: 76. Perhaps he want to torture him first.

I believe that Reaper didn’t kill Morrison because he first wants to let him watch, as Winston and his allies are butchered by him. Only then, will he finally eliminate his enemy using his supernatural powers and immortality. After all, would you grant your nemesis a swift death, or a slow and painful one?

Reaper remains an utter mystery if you delve past the Look-At-Me-I-Dress-Like-A-Villain bit and you find that there’s nothing there. You don’t know why he goes from war hero, beloved friend & mentor to this.
And the fact that we have no idea what happened at Zürich, the most important bit of history to the game…
It’s suspicious.
There must be something more there, right?

The developers stated back in May 2017 that there was much more to Reaper’s story than they wanted to tell. Yes, there is obviously more to it.

And it’s a good thing that Reaper is a subtle and mysterious villain, an eerie threat biding his time, waiting to strike. And once he makes his move; all shall tremble before his sorrowful wrath.

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I still feel like, going from being friends for YEARS, going through war together, going through SEP together, making overwatch and thriving together, theyre like brothers at this point, there was stress on the fact that ‘these guys loved each other’
like smth like that isnt just mentioned off handedly, ofc these guys cared for each other they went through hell together, they were a team. inseperable.

and now they’re enemies.

like, i just don’t grasp as to what could’ve happened to cause such a drastic shift in a relationship between them
when we’re told that gabriel was glad he didn’t get the Strike Commander position, and that Jack let Gabriel basically do whatever he wants

also reaper and gabriel are the same person

( i also don’t understand your ‘huh… moving on’ comment? )

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I still feel like, going from being friends for YEARS, going through war together, going through SEP together, making overwatch and thriving together, theyre like brothers at this point, there was stress on the fact that ‘these guys loved each other’
like smth like that isnt just mentioned off handedly, ofc these guys cared for each other they went through hell together, they were a team. inseperable.

and now they’re enemies.

like, i just don’t grasp as to what could’ve happened to cause such a drastic shift in a relationship between them
when we’re told that gabriel was glad he didn’t get the Strike Commander position, and that Jack let Gabriel basically do whatever he wants

Yes, he’s supposed to be an eerie and mysterious character, one of the most mature and adult in the game.

also reaper and gabriel are the same person

The motivations of Reaper are clear, so it’s the motivations of Reyes that are mysterious.

That’s because you don’t love Reaper enough to understand these subtle references to his cosmetic items.

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i love reaper with all my heart you cannot just accuse me of these horrible lies and think u can get away with it!
I JUST wanted to know why it’s there :((((

I need to know what made Gabriel this way and if he suffers every day, if he’s hurt, if he’s eating enough, does he miss his friends?
Ana and Jack miss him, they’re looking for him

Bring my boy home…

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There is something more going on. Symmetra isn’t the only child that Vishkar adopted, trained, and employed. And McCree isn’t all he appears to be.

McCree was a young agent employed by Vishkar’s Lumerico division to infiltrate the Deadlock gang and monitor arms trades between Deadlock and other gangs such as Los Muertos and a suspected arms dealer in Japan.

When Overwatch unexpectedly dismantled Deadlock, McCree used it as an opportunity to infiltrate Overwatch which McCree knew Vishkar considered too stabilizing an influence on the world economy. Vishkar loved the initiative and gave him instructions to destabilize Overwatch once he was trusted.

McCree went along with it, got in deep, realized there was some resentment from Reyes because he didn’t get promoted and Morrison, who was younger and had less experience, did get promoted.

McCree used this an an opportunity to sabotage relations, and told Reyes that things were about to go down, and that he was getting out now. He “warned” Reyes that when things down, everything would be blamed on Blackwatch and Reyes.

Reyes didn’t believe him. But then things went down and Vishkar/Lumerico used their connections and McCree’s info to ensure that is exactly what happened.

McCree may or may not have been the one to set the bombs in HQ, but Reyes wasn’t in the best shape after being exploded, and seeing himself framed for the crap that happened. As McCree had warned him, his trauma slowly caused him to believe that everything else that McCree had said.

McCree, on leaving Overwatch, realized that he didn’t feel good about his part in the crap but worst yet (for him) was Vishkar was questioning his loyalty. and felt he knew too. McCree was labelled a threat to their security. They started giving him riskier jobs with low payoffs and that resulted in most of McCree’s bounties as they started withdrawing support because “as a former Overwatch agent, you are too recognizable to work undercover, as a former Blackwatch agent, there are few organizations you can join.”

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but gabe was never angry about being passed the position…

( a fascinating theory though, i wouldnt have come up with that )

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Is this in reply to my McCree thing?

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yea sorry sometimes even if i reply to people it doesnt show as a direct reply :frowning:

edit: see? lol

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he’s just going through a phase.

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The Lore of Reaper is big so they will wait for a special ocassion (Blizzcon maybe) (A film?)

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i’m hoping for a short :eyes:
or just a comic… maybe we’ll see more in the next uprising

i was FLOORED when i heard his normal voice last year

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Ok, so the thing is that Reyes absolutely did not believe him and dismissed McCree’s attempts to gaslight and undermine as jokes.

But once the explosion happened? Reyes was hurt, on meds, and confused, perhaps not stable mentally due to brain trauma, and/or play between SEP drugs, nanites, and medicines Moira was giving him.

He had a lot of time to think while recovering and his thought processes weren’t the same as before.


Part of this idea comes from my real life experience with a man who was basically my uncle. He got in a horrid car accident and brain injuries occurred.

Before the injury, he was the kindest and most religious yet accepting man you’ve ever met. He never drank or smoked, didn’t even like taking aspirin. He was the preacher for the marriage of me and my husband, I couldn’t have imagined being married by anyone other than this man.

After the injury, he was a man who couldn’t be trusted. He was cruel in words and actions. He was constantly being detained by police for crimes. He was using and trying to deal hard drugs. He eventually had to be put into a mental health institute because he was so dangerous to everyone around him.

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“He did this to me, Ana. They left me to become this thing.”

“They left you to die, They left me to suffer”

That could potentially mean that Reyes may have been taken on an operation and been tortured and that Overwatch didn’t intervene.

If your body was genetically modified to heal better torture would be unimaginable. Reyes may have been managing his physical issues successfully prior to that.

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The Uprising event? Yeah, his voice was gorgeous

A short for such a great story? Naaaa

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this would imply he has received severe brain damage though? did they not look into it if there was smth to be done?

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Explosions almost always cause brain injuries due to the head movements that occur during them.

One explosion can result in injuries that cause memory problems, depression, and learning difficulties. It’s comparable to damage that that many football players experience from repeated brain injuries.

I don’t know, Moira was his doctor? Maybe his injuries and resulting changes to his personality suit her or Talon’s needs?

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