Well… not really
Rein getting 12 pins a game is extremely dumb. The best reins right now hardly pin anyone. 12 pins means the hitbox is extremely broken.
For non tank players, specifically DPS toddlers.
Orisa and Sigma both have the ability to deal damage while their barrier is active. Reinhardt cannot. Both also have a secondary form of damage reduction, Reinhardt does not.
Your knowledge of how tanks work is the problem.
You only understand “why” you want Reinhardt nerfed.
Right now I have between 3-6 a game.
Or that Blizzard introduced an ability to the game, that when fixed to work like all the shooty shooty guns was too powerful, so they had to break it again so people get booped or sucked in randomly.
Come on, it’s pretty obvious that they basically did the barrier nerf in such as way as to improve Reinhardt relative to Orisa and Sigma. They were trying to make him more competitive with double barrier. It was actually fine until they catastrophically nerfed Orisa and Sigma, it worked and double barrier was only slightly better than Rein-Zarya.
I disagree a tiny bit.
Orisa and Sigma didn’t even need those last nerfs, They were fine.
People just hadn’t adjusted to the new meta. I bet if people were given more time, we’d see a variety of tank comps.
I’m pretty sure rein zarya was already better even then.
I play all the tanks…that I personally think are tanks so no hamster or hog.
I don’t care how good Orisa and Sigma are. If my team needs them I play them.
Saying Reinhardt is too powerful is just stupid. The other tanks were either already garbage, or Blizzard nerfed them into the garbage can. Reinhardt has barely changed, and one of the changes was to fix a long broken mechanic Blizzard ignored for three years.
He’s meta, right now. So, he as the attention of the “Grab your torches and pitchforks!” Mob, right now.
Funny enough, though, these people don’t want any other barrier/main Tank to be good either. So, once Rein gets a bunch of nerfs, and another Tank becomes “King of Crap Mountain”, then they’ll whine for that one to be nerfed too.
And, funny enough, most of them do this while demanding these Heroes to be played and are surprised no one wants to play said Heroes, after countless nerfs.
It’s like these people wonder where the tank and support players have gone, without realizing that they’re part of the problem. No one wants to play a walking punching bag (Tank) or free kill (Support), but everyone expects someone else to “take one for the team” and play them anyway, one of them is the “best” choice out of the ones available.
Right now? It’s “Rein or bust” season. People don’t want to play him, for various reasons, but they expect others to, because he’s the best choice. And, because he’s the best choice, they want them nerfed. But, All that will do is make the second best choice, a must pick, then we nerf them, rinse and repeat.
All the while, losing more Tank and Support players, as we do so, because they don’t want to play Heroes/a role that is constantly getting thrown in the dumpster. And, then people come to the forums and whine about their Tanks not picking shields or why their are Tanks 2 ranks above or below their own SR/MMR, in their games. It’s because there’s not enough people willing to play the crappy role/sub role (Barrier Tanks), that seem to get nerfed every other patch
It’s on just one big cycle of perpetual frustration, for everyone
I mean, Winston has gotten nothing but buffs and he still can’t compete with Reinhardt in his current state.
And if Blizzard buffed him to a playable status, I would play him too.
Most of Winston’s issues can be boiled down to being countered by every single damage hero. Thank you damage creep, you’re welcome.
Also, the buffs Reinhardt got strategically undermined his largest weaknesses. They had huge impact.
2000 shield no steadfast slow Reinhardt would be balanced, but that’s not what we’ve got.
So, you think Reinhardt should be weak in melee range?
Each buff addresses things that only affect reinhardt in melee range.
Steadfast only affects things that move Reinhardt from the spot he is standing.
Movement speed is a fix to his melee range issue where you were forced to drop your shield to be fast enough to catch someone…in melee range…where before Blizzard broke him, this wasn’t an issue.
On top of that, you don’t think Reinhardt NOT HAVING A GUN, in a shooter isn’t his biggest weakness???
I don’t think Reinhardt needs to be so unquestionably best in his range. It’s not always possible to keep him out of melee range (especially with the speed buff) and there are other short range heroes.
The only melee tank shouldn’t be best in melee range.
Fine, then Widowmaker needs to “not be best” at distance.
That’s right, it only works when its not a damage hero.
It very much is, shoot him.
Bridgette, and Doomfist. One is trash and the other has a one shot. Not to mention, Doomfist has a gun.
Look, Rein is pretty much objectively overpowered right now, judging by his pickrates and winrates. It is possible to be too good at your specialty. Like in your example, if Widow could quickscope and didn’t have to charge, she’d be ‘too good’ at long range despite being intended to be good at long range.
Rein does what he is designed to do so well that you basically have to play him, even if the situation should theoretically favor someone else. That’s overpowered. And being so much better than Winston shows that it’s not all about other tanks being nerfed.
That being said, I would be fine with buffing everyone else first and then maybe nerfing Reinhardt if it isn’t enough.
To equate this to the tank roster we would have to do this.
“All damage heroes except Widowmaker have all their damage reduced by half. On top of that, any hero that has sustain is reduced by half as well. Oh, and by the way, Widowmaker has 20% increase in scope charge rate.”
Do we then team up against the Widowmaker players, or do we do the logical thing and ask for Blizzard to buff the rest of the damage roster???
Well, let’s get those buffs first, and then maybe see how it is.
I am worried that buffing the other main tanks to Reinhardt’s level will make tanks overpowered in general, and obsolete the off tanks. There are consequences to tanks being too good.
Well, the thing is, there’s no in between with Reinhardt. You either need to play super aggressive to get kills/value, because you’re a melee range hero and only have that potential up close, So that leaves you open to being CC’d, literally, to death. Or, play “I am a wall” simulator, keep your distance, avoid the CC, and hope your team gets the kills/value for you.
Neither is really fun for the Rein player. You either try to play the game and become a glorified punching bag. Or, you just put up your shield and go make a sandwich. There is no in between. Not with his kit design.
Yup.
Honestly, I’ll never fully understand this community. If Reinhardt is meta (like right now), people screech like howler monkeys. But, If anything else is meta other than Reinhardt, they are 10 times worse.
Don’t get me wrong, I understand that for some people, it is literally the complete lack of variety. Personally, I am in that camp. I have issues with the fact that anything we have ends up being metaphor a long time, that just gets old fast.
But, people can’t deny, that there is a bias of sorts. I mean, Rein was meta for how long before Baptiste Bunker, yet hardly anyone complained about him, specifically. But Orisa was meta for 5 minutes and They were already calls to nerf her into the ground. And this was before Sigma came out.
Honestly, if I was a developer, I would feel like I’m “Damned if I do, damned if I don’t” with this community. Because, as much as they claim to hate certain things, they hate other things even more, so no matter what you do, somebody’s pissed off.
With 2/2/2 in place, and seemingly not being changed any time soon, I see no reason not to make the tanks stronger. To try different things to see what works.
Its like Blizzard implemented role queue and then went;
“Even though there can only be 2 tanks for some reason they are just way too strong, lets nerf them.”
It doesn’t have to be direct mitigation or damage increase, but Jesus Christ give the tank roster some flavor.
You know, I kinda thought Rein’s giant 1600 hp shield was supposed to bring a lot of value.
Rein’s not supposed to be a DPS. He shouldn’t be getting that many kills. He takes space for his team, he’s supposed to be threatening, but his offensive abilities are not supposed to be driving his team.
That is, also a fair point.
Honestly, I find it kind of funny. When we were testing out 132 on the experimental card, that actually had potential balance changes. You know, things we could have seen, had that become the main way to play.
But, with 222, it seemed like they put the cart before the horse. They slapped in the Role Q first, and then they’re like “let’s hope we can balance it later”. And, honestly, I think that’s partly what caused so many problems.
because, now, it just seems like they’re flying by the seat of their pants. There really seems to be no grand plan, and it’s all just “let’s wing it”. and, to be honest, as a regular player, it’s giving me whiplash. Especially, anytime I want to play tank or support, because I feel like they’re being nerfed every other patch. And, then people wonder why no one wants to play those rules. Well, I wonder…