You can’t be afraid to fail… and even in this case I still think time will tell AND mmr mirror is the right thing to do.
If there are other things to be done let’s find it. But don’t take mmr “fair” matches out.
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I mean couldn’t they scrap mmr altogether and just rank around SR?
There is zero point to it, except to fake the experience and force an artificial grind.
Surely with 40 million players there are more than enough comp players to ship “random around narrow SR band” matches within 5-10mins, even during off hours. Maybe not so much for edge ranks, but still.
It think it’s absolutely silly that a 4-stack of streamers can get T500 games in a few minutes but many of us wait 12 minutes for a match that pulls from bronze to plat.
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They would be functionally the same thing.
MMR is an aggregate of your “skill”.
SR is a visual representation of where your MMR was recently.
If you remove mmr, SR becomes what MMR is now. There is no difference from a MM stand point.
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Great! So just remove it. No place for mmr in a fair transparent system.
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I think you missed my point.
MMR and SR are the same thing. The only difference is one you can see and one you can’t.
In a competitive environment, you have to have some way to compare peoples skills. What you call it is meaningless.
They can remove MMR and only use SR and nothing would change except that you can now see the little number that the MM is using.
Nothing would change.
Right. And I think you missed my point.
Get rid of the fake/hidden/rigged
just show the only thing that matters: SR
MM around SR, show us our SR, and make it simpler and leaner.
simpler and leaner > fat and hidden
Everything would change when the competition isn’t fake and redundant.
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blind leading the blind around here
Well, an argument could be made that people would try to game the system if instant SR feedback was available.
But personally, i agree. There’s no reason to have two. But seeing your actual number would not change anything.
The MM will still use that number for games. If you can see it or not is irreverent.
There is nothing fake, or rigged about it, hidden, yes. But again, seeing the number the MM uses will not change the games it puts you in.
Though i admit, it would probably reduce some of the confusion and anger. Someone thinks they are at one rank even though the MM considers them another.
I think a lot of egos would be crushed. Instead of people thinking they’re plat and complaining about getting silver teammates. They’d have to face the fact that they’re silver and not blame the MM.
They said they wont go back to an overwatch 1 model.
I would prefer the mmr has sways of one rank above and below only.
Not 2 or 3 as it is now.
I feel its a solution to smurfs but not a general balance issue.
I believe it’s done to help que times.
I can’t quote the source, but i remember reading from OW1 that the MM starts with a narrow margin. At set times it expands the MMR range. The longer the wait time, the wider the skill range may be.
I have no idea if they still use that system or not though.
It’s a fine line to walk. Everyone wants balanced matches, but most people don’t want to wait 10 mins to get one.
Incorrect. MMR takes into account ping and other “unmentionables”.
I cant agree with that man… same reason as above. There are so many factors outside of skill. Now I can agree that skill should be 90% of it… but I dont know the recipe.
I think MMR with a SR for shiny pixels, and just looking for boundary conditions is all we can hope for. In addition performance of some type has to be considered…
If there is no hidden rigging, and no performance criteria, only winrate…then anything MMR can do SR can do. Except SR does it better, since it’s shown, and explainable, and leans out the code mess (less buggish).
We need to lean out the stuff that doesn’t matter, obfuscates, and ruins the experience.
make it a 1-off SR bonus at the end of the match.
if you beat the rest of the lobby (not the population, not rank averages, not historic baggage) → then you get some pbsr and move up a bit faster.
The point being they can still do all this with SR and if they really must, a markovian pbsr. mmr just clouds the issue, and as many have realized it shouldn’t be involved, since SR is ultimate ranking, matchmaking, and payout metric.
a wee correction just for clarity
MMR itself doesnt take ping into consideration, but the matchmaker does.
Way back when Jeff mentioned three criteria for matchmaking, and that was
speed (he said time but whatever), ping, MMR
Since its one massive post just search “ExcaliburZ” in that post to get to the part im referencing.
Im still seeing thew biggest difference in the DPS role. Its not just raw numbers either. As far as other roles I am for the most part being put against tanks I have to legitimately outplay. I have to counter I can play aggressive but not stupid or they will punish it. Heals again for the most part have been pretty good. Where I’m seeing the biggest gaps isn’t mechanical skill but game sense.
The most common mistakes.
Bad picks or not swapping when hard countered. Huge positioning errors, not using map cover, not rotating, poor flanking, poor pathing. Criminally poor cooldown management.
I still say give it time let it recalculate things, maybe some more mid season tweaks, I feel like they almost have it and it should be smoother after the first week or so anyways.
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Yea I keep getting those games were 3/4 dps are going 20-6 while one is 7-9. And anytime the bad dps actually does anything you automatically win the fight.
That’s exactly what people want though.
People are fed up with some unknown variable (MMR) working behind the scenes to determine their matches, instead of using the rank that is visible. I thought that was common knowledge around here.
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100% agree. It should be made public otherwise it appears dishonest and prone to outside manipulation.
On the second part, if it were based on things that the client side can alter…. Then they need to change that asap because just by them keeping it secret, I’m sure someone has already or will figure it out - and we, the general public, never know.
A true server side secure variable means they can be forthcoming and we, the public, couldn’t change it if we wanted to.
So the secrecy surrounding this definitely points to client side - the Diablo 1 town kills, and profile changes. Which goes back to streamers and the unranked to gm fishyness.
If the devs had an average IQ or higher, they would not allow grouping above one rank above or below. They would do away with their trash MMR system and base games off of mirror ranks using an elo system like FaceIt for Counter-Strike. And stop trying to make each person have a 50% win rate. They would match and let the games play out. Forcing a win rate is forcing unfair games. And right now, you don’t win if you do well. You win if the matchmaker is in your favor or not. Simple as that.