We need to go back to 6 vs.6 so this game can succeed

General Discussion
1

The developers need to make Overwatch 6 vs. 6 again if they wish for their game to succeed.

All the damage that was done to Overwatch 2 with 5 vs. 5 can absolutely still be reverted in a massive balance patch, and this game still has the potential to be great again.

FOR THE PLAYERS THAT ARE TRYING TO BLAME LONG QUEUES ON 6 VS. 6.

I don’t know why you people are acting as if 6v6 was the reason for long queues when it is most definitely due to Blizzard not updating the game for years.

Developers not updating their game will make players lose interest in that game, and their lost interest is going to result in those players leaving said game, which is exactly what happened with Overwatch.

Believe it or not, there was a time in Overwatch, which I’d say was from 2016 to the beginning of 2020, where the queue times were relatively short unless you were playing the game in like the 4200 SR range, which yeah, then obviously your queues would’ve been long no matter what time period you would’ve been playing in.

I’d say the beginning of April in 2020 is when the queues really became ridiculous, and I’m pretty sure that’s around when Echo was released, which was the final hero we got until Overwatch 2.

All I’m saying is if you think players had long queues because of 6 vs.6 (“I’m not saying 6 vs. 6 didn’t have its problems, and it probably did make a small minority of players leave,”) but the long queuing was definitely due to the major lack of content and updates we were getting, not 6 vs. 6.

FOR THE PLAYERS BLAMING THE DOUBLE SHIELD META

Was Double Shield horrific for the game? “Yes, absolutely.” Do I think the developers needed to change the entire format of the game because of it? “Not a chance in hell.” Could double shield and super sustain be fixed in a balance patch or seasonal patch? “Yes, absolutely!”

THE DIFFERENCE HAVING A SECOND TANK MAKES

If you’re a support player who’s having a awful time because your Doomfeed is diving the enemy backline while the enemy DPS are trying to murder you, “You know what would immediately fix this problem?” An “OFF TANK.” (“Y’all remember when we had our off tank peeling for us?”) Those were the days.

If you’re a tank who’s struggling to get value, isn’t playing at their best, and is constantly berated by your team and the enemy team’s pressure, “you know what would help you pick up the slack and alleviate that pressure?” an “OFF TANK.”

If you’re playing DPS and you’re finding it difficult to secure kills for your team and help your tank make space, “you know what would help you with all those things?” An “OFF TANK.”

WHY 5 VS. 5 WILL NEVER SUCCEED UNLESS THR CORE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE TANK ROLE ARE CHANGED

I know I sound like a broken record at this point over “off tanks,” but that term should’ve never left the game, and that’s the problem with Overwatch 2, which is that the core fundamentals of Overwatch 2 are STILL playing off things like “OFF TANKS.”

The core fundamentals of Overwatch 2 were not changed enough so that having one tank succeeds, and unless Blizzard decides to completely change the fundamental role of the tanks to where tanks can somehow secure space and peel while also pressuring in 5 vs. 5, it will never succeed.

GO AND SEE HOW MUCH BETTER IT IS YOURSELF

If you were to go and play Overwatch2 right now in a custom game where you’d have 2-2-2 vs. 2-2-2 or 6 vs. 6, you would have a better time and enjoy the game far more, even with how things are balanced in Overwatch2 right now, just because the game’s fundamentals were designed around two tanks.

#6vs6daway

84 Likes
2

I don’t think going back to the 6v6 format that OW1 died under is a good idea

I enjoy 5v5 much more, especially Tanking, but also Support/DPS, there’s just a better flow to the game when it isn’t a war of attrition at choke points with 2 weaker tanks

7 Likes
3

1-3-2, yes.
2-2-2, nope. :skull:

4 Likes
4

As someone who was originally really in favor of 5v5, I really dont like it. I disagree that there is a better flow to the game. The game is now just “pocket the OP tanks” where the game is decided by whoever is the better tank player getting pocketed harder, while dive once again has little to no counterplay because of the removal of CC.

13 Likes
5

I disagree. I see DPS & Supports making big plays outside of pocketing tanks, and I don’t see dive running rampant either (unless they’re allowed to because players don’t counterpick, in which case anything can run rampant)

I also may be biased as someone who loves playing all the “anti-dive”-esque heroes, I’m not really relying on other people to do it for me

6

Honestly I was always of the opinion they should do more. Why stop at 6, why not 8v8 or even 10v10. How about 5v5v5 ? Three teams fighting over an objective or something?

It always struck me odd that most online games go towards larger player counts one generation to the next, yet OW went for less.

8 Likes
7

Every tank is basically like Genji, where all you’re doing is poking until you get your ultimate, then go in, and if you mess up your ultimate, well, then that’s GG’s.

Also contrary to the role name, the tank role has to play cover and corners the most due to their huge hitboxes.

You really enjoy that?

I mean, I’m more of a run at the enemy tank and see who kills each other first type of tank player, but I guess I can see that…

I mean that’s literally just deathmatch at that point

And why not though? C’mon don’t be that person to not give their reasoning

4 Likes
8

Bringing back another tank also helps deal with the sniper problem, you can have a tank stay with the team while the off tank dives them in the backlines.

Also going to 5v5 made it so that the off tank now had to main tank and that transition wasnt smooth, look at roadhog for a example

As for double shield. Just keep the nerf they did to shields, and orisa doesnt have hers anymore.

18 Likes
9

How do you balance that, though? I think balancing played a major factor in why the developers went with 5 vs. 5 in the first place, they couldn’t handle or understand how to balance 6 vs. 6.

Imagine 20 ults going off on a single point you wouldn’t even be able to see due to the VFX. :sweat_smile:

1 Like
10

I don’t think this is the case at all… I felt like this is how OW1 played, whereas OW2 you actually have the strength to go in as a Tank

I’m getting kills without ultimates, not just poking & waiting for ult.

Maybe it’s a rank/skill difference? Idk, but I’m not poking until ult

This is not how I feel playing tank in OW2, but it was in OW1

This is exactly why I prefer tanking in OW2, because I can run at the enemy tank and see who kills eachother first, instead of OW1 where if I peeked a corner without a 2nd tank/supports babysitting me I’d blow up instantly

1 Like
11

At higher ranks there’s a lot of dive - Winston and Tracer are by large the top picks in top500 right now. Winston is slightly displaced right now by JQ because she got massively over buffed.

DPS is also by far the least impactful role in the game. You have to put in significantly more effort than tank and support to get value, but their impact largely depends on how poorly the enemy tanks and supports play more than anything. OW2 even since beta has basically been a game of both damage and healing both being way too strong, so everything either dies instantly or never dies.

OW1’s problems could’ve been solved in much better ways. For example, OP tank synergies like double barrier had a lot more to do with the fact that those heroes also had the ability to provide suppressive fire while their barriers were out. If you look back, you can ask “If double barrier is so strong, why was orisa+rein never a thing?” and it’s because you realize that Rein, unlike Orisa and Sigma, had to choose between playing defensively or aggressively. If he was holding his barrier up, he couldnt do anything else. Not to mention, being melee range. They just need to change tank designs so they were less viable in all situations and had real drawbacks in their kits instead of being able to provide nearly infinite mitigation while also being able to provide offensive capabilities like every other hero at the same time.

4 Likes
12

Hard disagree. People keep overlooking the fact that 6v6 isn’t what killed Overwatch. 3 years of stagnation with no updates, balance changes and the same broken comps with no counters is what killed OW. 6v6 is fine.

17 Likes
13

Honestly 5v5 and 6v6 isnt the kind of difference that will make or break the game. Its not magically going to succeed because the game is in either format. Its more of a balance change than anything and people out of the loop dont care about those much. I think this forum overstates the difference because they’re all in the loop.

I mean just look at the current game. Player interest, from most metrics I can view like google trends, is only slightly higher than OW1 was during the content drought. Im willing to attribute the slight difference in interest more to the fact its free now then the idea 5v5 massively changed player interest.

1 Like
14

95% of the playerbase isn’t “higher ranks”, so I’m not sure saying “dive is rampant” is an accurate statement

As far as DPS being the “least impactful”… I think you’re splitting hairs. If I can kill a player or two it’s going to have a huge impact on the fight

6v6 being fine is your opinion, OW1 was going downhill long before the content drought, and many problems a lot of people had were due to 6v6

15

Poor wording on my part - what I mean is that dive is very strong and has little counterplay where it’s played due to the lack of CC. In many cases, if a Winston or ball jumps you, you’re dead unless you have someone glued to you to peel.

That’s not what I mean by impact. You’re using an anecdote here. By that logic, it’s possible to get a 5k as a DPS too, it happens. That’s literally the most impactful thing that can happen - a team wipe. But that’s not what impact is. Impact means how much value you bring to the battlefield as that role. Supports and tanks both have significantly more impact and control the way the game is played.

1 Like
16

Shooting tanks and shields is boring, and I don’t say that as dps player, but as sup main. Also, tanks have all the CCs now. It could be cancer dealing with them in a 6v6, unless devs rework all them again.

17

Well tbh I’m not overly concerned about the top 5% of the playerbase and what they experience for a couple reasons, they’re just 5%, they don’t care about the other 95%, and they should be able to figure out how to overcome/combat it with Brig & other heroes

This doesn’t really mean/say a whole lot imo

I don’t understand your point. If DPS can be very impactful, but are “techincally” the least impactful, what’s your point?

18

This is probably just a rank-perspective difference.

I play at the lower end of GM, and this is how most tanks are played in my matches.

When Rein is played, he just swings at the enemy until he gets his shatter. That’s when he is played, though he’s pretty awful right now.

Ball’s slamming repeatedly until mines or diving depends on the comp, obviously.

Dva and Winston are probably the exceptions, but they’re rarely played.

Sigma, Zar, Orisa, and Ram are literally just poke tanks at this point.

Junkerqueen is kind of in between because of her buffs; she can just poke for her ult or play aggressive.

Hogs no longer played at all, so there’s not much to say about him.

A lot of tank players who play in GM are being turned away from the role because you’re literally poking until you get your ultimate, and there’s not much skill expression in that.

Like what, though? I’d argue that when the game was receiving content updates “not great as they were,” it was at its peak.

1 Like
20

“Shooting tanks” and “shooting shields” are completely different things, though.

Shooting shields is boring as you’re doing nothing. Shooting tanks though I’d argue is just as engaging as shooting a DPS; there’s not much difference there.

And yeah, the game can’t just go back to 6 vs. 6 in its current form; all the tanks would probably have to be tuned, and all the hard CC would have to be removed.

21

Could be. What ranks are you referring to that you think it’s just poke until ulting?

Really? I feel like I’m not even seeing this in streams…

In your games, who are the most played tanks in order if you could guess?

Well the first 2 things that come to mind is how miserable tanking was (no one wanted to play it) and how slow 6v6 made the game play

Now I can actually move around the map & get angles, and not just on flankers either, but really more importantly I don’t have a 2nd tank throwing the game, feeding ult & misdirecting the rest of the team anymore… so nice just being the solo tank