The new map is horrible and continues on a trajectory of faster, more volatile, more RNG, brawl style of play.
We need more paypload and push maps that have a GOAL rather than “here’s an open area – FIGHT”.
I don’t get what the dev team is thinking.
If they are trying to cater to different play styles, then allow us to opt into specific map types.
5 Likes
honestly i had my 1st match in clash and i hate it
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I dislike these brawl map types so much but especially the new one - I’ve been leaving them IMMEDIATELY (never once hero selection is done, no matter how much I hate it). But it’s getting ridiculous.
I thought they were trying to slow down the game, make it more strategic. There IS strategy in brawl style but it’s quite different and it certainly encourages reckless AOE play. Next we’ll be playing on our phones…
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You won’t get any good maps that we used to get in the first iteration of OW. All the talent has left the studio and they are trying to rework old maps that were removed rather than completely start from scratch.
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Interesting, I had no idea but this makes sense. It’s just bizarre the direction they are taking. I wonder if the new management under Microsoft can turn the ship around. They have enough diversified revenue to not be HYPER focused on immediate profitability.
I agree. They should not be taking map designs that didn’t work and trying to make something from them. Look at clash it is such a bad game mode derived from a terrible game mode. It is just a steam roll mode which is exactly the whole point people didn’t like 2cp.
They need to look at maps that are among the more popular and go from there and pull what is and isn’t working and design from there. I would like to see more Kings Row type maps. The capture and push maps feel the most enjoyable to me.
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aaron is clueless on what he is doing its becoming more and more clear
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Who says it’s not strategic? Lack of strategy is exactly how you lose in the new mode
If you lose a fight but take too long to get it together, you’re gonna lose two points. If you use ultimates too soon or too many of them, the enemy may get a point then blow you away on the next point with their ultimates.
Just because the game moces fast doesn’t mean there isn’t stuff to think about. You just gotta move faster with it.
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You are correct, it IS strategic but it’s a very specific type of strategy.
I don’t want to focus of brawl style modes that are all open spaces where everyone fights in the center.
Ideally, they should have mixed maps or allow us to choose the modes we want to play (not individual maps, mind you, just the map style).
They’ve added SO many brawl maps lately.
I don’t want to “move fast”, I want more thoughtful longer games.
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Everyone shouldn’t be fighting in the center though, there are still places to position around every point and spots you want to hold.
The time you hold each spot is usually shorter though since you’re moving around the map more than in other modes, same for Flashpoint and Push. There’s nothing wrong with that though.
Yeah hence why they literally destroyed hanamura to create the assets for this new dumpster fire.
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My biggest gripe with hanaoka is that it’s just a straight line.
Like… that’s so lame and uninspired. They could at least make them a V shape.
Not too mention the points are so close together.
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Clash is so bad, every match is just teams ping ponging between points. Most matches end 4-5, but that closeness isnt good in this context
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i think its a horrible mode others have called for it to be removed from the game like venture to be removed
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Yes !! Those signs blocking moves and one shot in Numbani are the best level design idea ever existed ! Numbani is the best map for that !
Or getting stuck in 66 road between a wall and a lamp… such delightful level designing.
Hanoaka feels like a real FPS level. On one hand, it feels like a level and not like an actual place, on the other hand, gameplay wise, I think its a very good one.
The only problem I have had on it, is the dead ends near spawns and dead ends suck in a FPS game.
You can tell Payload maps are so badly designed when there’s no open area, you can’t stop the cart at all like Gibraltar, good luck to stop the cart in the first tunnel if the enemy team stays around it or Numbani last tunnel, R66 first half of the last section.
Those points can be defended only if the pushing team splits.
I hated 2cp with my entire being. I was SO happy when they took all maps out for ow2. I will take the terrible push and flashpoint modes over 2cp any day. Having said that, while playing hanaoka I couldn’t help but think that I would rather be playing hanamura. Clash feels terrible to play because it’s basically a constant overtime situation. There is hardly any time to regroup because you need to throw yourself on point RIGHT NOW to prevent a cap. In the games that aren’t steam rolls, they take forever to complete and are constant stress. Which is fitting the spirit of the salvaged 2cp map. Can’t wait for them to put a Paris map in and have the music alone make ow1 players flash back.
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I don’t care how much hate I get for this: Flashpoint is fun as hell.
It’s like Clash’s much hotter, cooler, older brother.
In Flashpoint, everyone seems to complain about the long walks between points and the sense of isolation and vulnerability when you’re far from your team. But that’s exactly what makes the game mode good, IMO. It incentivises you to really work together as a team - not just during a battle, but also while doing something as simple as travelling together to the next point. And it REALLY punishes players for being stupid and trying to 1v5 the enemy. It also encourages team members to stick around near the spawn point so they can escort the squishies safely back into battle, to avoid spawnkilling Sombras.
It’s a game mode that really incentivises TEAMWORK - something that should really be more of a focus in a team shooter, really. It’s great.
I suspect that ‘Clash’ is just a first draft which eventually evolved into ‘Flashpoint’, and it only became a game mode in its own right because Blizzard got lazy during the design process and decided “screw it - let’s repurpose some stuff. That’ll do”.
Clash certainly enables teams to enter massive 5v5 melees due to the closely-packed points and their close proximity to the spawnpoints. But somehow, it doesn’t seem to incentivise actual teamwork or thought.
Bless the map designers though. They absolutely kill it with every map. They’re all gorgeous, and tons of fun. The Clash map is really nice, IMO. I just wish it was less of a full-on game mode so I could actually find 10 seconds to explore it properly.
You are again, correct. What I meant is that it is a very specific, static place. You either do AoE or snipe from the sides. And the reality of how much ‘strategy’ you can get out of a random group of friends (because this game somehow ACTIVELY discourages any kind of bonding and forming social connections within the game, when it could benefit tremendously from it – e.g. why no guilds or lobbies at least?).
Every map suffers from that but I think these ‘here is a wide open space, now fight’ suffer the most.
Not to mention that there is just something much less… obvious as a goal. In push it’s the robot. In payload, it’s the escort. And I really love mixing modes where you have capture-the-point, which then unlocks a payload.
Why not even do CP + payload + unlocks a robot to escort.
If you put it in the abstract you are right. Brawl is just another type of map with its unique strategy. But I think it lends itself a lot less to having some kind of ‘story’ and the feeling of progression and a mixed variety of play. What I love on the push and payload maps is that the movement and by implications the variety of terrain that allows, makes for more diverse and interesting play styles rather than a SINGLE style.
E.g. in most push and pay you go through successive areas that are more like tunnels, areas that encourage sniping from a distance, areas taht are better for close quarters fighting, ‘brawl’ fighting, AoE engagements, air play, areas where airplay is horrible, etc.
The variety of those maps is what is exciting and you simply cannot mechanically have that kind of variety when most of the map is predicated on a single open-space location, even if they all differ a bit.
There is something intrinsically different, to me subjectively at least, where any time I get a brawl style map I’m super disappointed and either quit instantly (ie before even character selection) or suffer and bear it but get no enjoyment. My gaming sessions usually end on one of those maps, especially when I join the 5th brawl map in a row. I try to tell myself you learn something and can find fun any situation but it’s just too much ‘work’ for something that’s meant to be enjoyable.
It could also be the psychology of having a more tangible goal rather than ‘capping’ a location for me on top of everything else.
I acknowledge people enjoy different things. There is probably a big chunk of players who hate push and payload and enjoy the open spaces for brawl. But in that case, they should have a more equal number of maps of each type - it feels like recently they’ve added one ‘longer’ map like push and about 5 brawl style maps. It’s really lopsided.
I’d also love to be able to choose game modes (NOT specific maps, which could be abused). And it can only be a ‘suggestion’ to the engine rather than a hard choice in case they don’t have any people online to form complete times quickly enough.
E.g. I’d love to be able to skew my map selection towards those that are payload and push and discourage getting picked in brawl. If I get 1-2 brawls out of every 10 games, I’d be happy with that.
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Nah, it’s a nice addition. Maybe the objective capture time need some tweaking, but the map is fun.
Much prefer brawl maps to widow maps
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