It’s unacceptable to leave Sombra as weak as she is (along with Hog, but that’s a tangent/pls never do dive-Hog unless… rework fully turns him into Wrecking Boarl ).
Her, Genji, and even Tracer have all had their teeth pulled and as someone who greatly prefers playing dive tank, they are a little bit pathetic to engage with even if you have mid-level coordination. Maybe part of 5v5 means there’s just one fewer dive partner available. I can feel so powerful tankdiving and get great picks/space/value, only for my own team to also get mangled by the enemy dive tank+resources. It feels fairly dumb and isn’t a good game/fight/tempo interaction.
Personally, I find dive way more active and fun to play than poke–>ultfest, but all the flankers are getting heavily outshone by some (IMO) hot garbage that persists like snipers and otherwise well-balanced midrange heroes who happen to crit/burst too hard for zero reason, all while getting too much value for far too little risk (and likely less cumulative skill).
I’d never be caught dead directly asking for buffs, but all 3 of the pure dive DPS are way more risk and higher execution requirements/low impact than reward, and that’s kinda messed up when you compare how one plays a hero like MCAss, Hanzo, or Widow (even Soldjourn). Higher risk to your own life and limb should offer higher reward. For clarity, I’m also speaking to tiers under old PC diamond, I’m sure high-Elo dive still gets some value (but it’s likely more efficient/lazier to play midrangers, anyway).
One change that could work without adding new heroes or having to rebalance old ones is tune down DPS health points. Support would just get obliterated if you lower their health and tanks absolutely need the HP in shieldnerfed 5v5, but if all DPS health values were toned down you could keep burst (damage+heals) as-is and it would teach better gamesense/reward better positioning as well as make dive feel viable again (with an added benefit of making certain people who probably most need the lesson to appreciate Lifegrip more). Another suggestion I’ve seen is to add the support regen passive to everyone which would help dive DPS more if they can safely disengage, and not help too much for static/ranged DPS. This also makes more sense if you also lower DPS HP.
Thoughts? Opinions? Ignore this thread into oblivion???
With how Blizzard has been designing the last few heroes, I hate to see how they’d make a dive hero. Imagine a dive hero with as many tools and abilities as Kiriko, Ramattra and Lifeweaver. It’d either be overcomplicated to the point of uselessness, or ridiculously overpowered due to being able to do everything.
There are no non viable heroes. You mean optimal. And optimal isn’t this games primary concern and isn’t going to be.
You say viable but you mean ‘uncontested’
Sorry. You can’t have everything. You can’t have a reduction in stuns and counters and hyper mobility and Amazing damage and have no weaknesses. It doesn’t work that way.
Not with how these dive DPS are. You either need to be in the top 5-10% of PC players or have unattainable solo coordination.
A very fair point.
No, I meant viable. You can reread what I said and you can read the definition for viable, because that’s exactly what I meant. Sombra is the opposite of viable. Genji and Tracer are also not all that capable of working successfully in the current climate of the game in that you get more, easier value playing a slew of other DPS heroes. Plus I’m not asking for all 3 to be best in slot, I just want one of them to be a little bit good compared to what I’ve been experiencing. I’m also very very sick of the mid-to-longrange critshot handholding while the servers are connected with spaghetti wire and the hitboxes are too forgiving (then piling favour the shooter on that mess).
Ok, I’m thankful then that I didn’t ask for everything. I just asked for either more dive DPS, at least one non-anemic dive DPS partner, or DPS HP globally lowered (which helps all DPS). Frankly, I personally don’t mind high TTK but others don’t like it so that’s the concession. Ranged is getting pandered to currently, even Mei probably doesn’t need that much damage on alt icicle crit. I never said no weaknesses, I literally said to nerf all DPS health if you read what I posted.
It’s also a funny joke to say “there are no non-viable heroes” with Sombra and Hog in the game. It shouldn’t cost orders of magnitude more effort to get value out of heroes like Sombra vs Hanzo or Hog vs Orisa.
She used to be. She’s still accumulated 3 individual damage nerfs since 2021, which doesn’t explicitly matter but she’s ended up slightly undertuned. All I’m saying is Tracer requires way more gamesense, mechanical skill, spatial awareness, and reflexes than heroes that get way more value for doing a fraction of that, such as: Widow, Hanzo, Reaper, Mei, Ashe, Sym, Torb, Pharah, Echo…
All Tracer likely needs is pistols to go from 5.5 to 5.75 and she’d probably feel a world different to a wealth of people, and that small change would suffice to make a decent dive partner.
As said above, I’m very rarely one to advocate for Genji buffs. I think he can still do tons of works an he gets the benefit/bonus of quite a few little tricks no other heroes are privy to, but for that he has a high skill ceiling with a somewhat low margin for error. Either way, most Genjis can’t/don’t dive with Winston or Ball and survive.
Sombra’s been left in the gutter and it’s almost as shameful as leaving Hog there (only made slightly less so by there being 16 other DPS heroes to choose from, but extremely rough for Sombra mains).
They need to figure out what they want Sombra to do, and modify her so her mechanics aren’t irritating to the general population at large.
Dive requires coordination that’s typically not present in lower ranks. If they buff them - they’ll be pushed over the edge in the ranks where they know how to play dive properly.
This would be overpowered, especially on mobile heroes.
The DPS roster is 1 hero shy of having exactly twice as many options as support (and this is including WifeLeaver who’s kind of a throw pick right now). I think you’re all spoiled for choice as it is and they need to work on filling out the support and tank rosters.
I agree, but I’d argue the way her Hack works now is pretty unobtrusive compared to past iterations. I’ve always thought Hack should have a relevantly timed lockout per individual enemy ability, that way they could effectively use Sombra as a balancing dial if they needed to. Kinda meta to ‘hack’ your own game with your own hacker hero from a Blizz perspective.
I don’t care for this argument, mostly the bit where higher ranks hold lower ranks hostage in terms of having fun or strats available to them. Also IMO, dive isn’t rocket science, it’s just movement with target focus. If they kept in the social features of the game instead of sterilizing OW2 to the point that it feels like an extremely isolating solo experience, I bet a lot more lower ranks would have access to dive. The game is so much worse off for it without LFG or other ways to be fun, playful, social, and positively conversational with your lobby in the name of reducing toxicity. Heavily oriented team games probably shouldn’t cannibalize being social.
Not if you can aim/hit your abilities on non-mobile heroes. Iceblock and spray is very easy to hit if you can’t fend off dive otherwise.
This is true, and I’m mainly a tank main asking for better dive partner heroes. Spoiled for choice could be great if Hanzo-Widow-Ashe-McAshe-Soldjourn-Bastion weren’t effectively the same hero as the two next to them with a knob or two turned. It’s boring and frankly I think they could fully remove the sniper heroes (leave in Ashe), and the game would be a ton healthier than it is now. We all know that’s not going to happen. I wish picking a midrange/sniper would lock the others out with maybe the exception of Soldier, but that’s not a great solution, either.
I agree with this as well. I understand she’s been extremely hated (I main Ball), but I picked her up to learn Ball better and realized she individually can completely turn fights or win games with certain types of play. I don’t think it’s fair she loses her identity, either.
She’s easily S tier and debatably the best dps in the game. If anything she needs a nerf, not a buff. Although a rework would be better. Low ranks being unable to use her doesn’t mean shes underpowered.
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buffs, but all 3 of the pure dive DPS are way more risk and higher execution requirements/low impact than reward, and that’s kinda messed up when you compare how one plays a hero like MCAss, Hanzo, or Widow (even Soldjourn). Higher risk to your own life and limb should offer higher reward. For clarity, I’m also speaking to tiers under old PC diamond, I’m sure high-Elo dive still gets some value (but it’s likely more efficient/lazier to play midrangers, anyway).
