We need a 5v5 experimental ASAP

See who is talking

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Then keep them disabled? The whole point is to get a feel for the experience that led the devs to go down this route.

The whole idea is that people are more receptive to huge sweeping changes when it’s a new game, which absolutely makes logical sense. So if this is the current reaction, then it would be virtually impossible for them get away with it if they tried to release it now.

You are familiar with ad hominem, right? There was an actual point nestled with my insult bud.

That si fair, but I still think giving the product to people to play with will do more harm than good. As of now, they’ve explicitly stated multiple times on the stream that this is all highly experimental and unfinished. If they were to give it out, I can assure you people would not understand that.

We already have an inordinate number of people who can’t even grasp basics such as OW2 being a free upgrade and complain endlessly about something as silly as being called a sequel. I certainly would not expect people to provide reasonable, level headed feedback on something completely unfinished that’s missing tons of significant balance changes.

The 1-3-2 experimental was released solely because they admitted it was a failed experiment, and simply wanted people to give it a shot. Worst case scenario is people got some small amusement from it at nearly zero effort from their end (all under the assumption such a thing wouldn’t go live). At best they get valuable feedback from those who did like it, and much of that likely went into the decisions for 5v5.

You can’t simply rush such rebalancing. If simply it was under current balance, you’d have sniper fest in higher elo with zarya being the most op in lower ranks or rein if you need shields.

I personally don’t care about 5v5 or 6v6. I care more about gameplay experience as tanks.

As someone who played tons of tanks before (main acc), I hate entire experience when you’ve got yourself forced to play main tank when you don’t want to. If tanks are balanced properly and can do their jobs properly, it shouldn’t be problematic even if you’ve got a Hog in your team. But right now, how often you come across teammates who need shields to play the game?

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I understand, but… Role queue happened. As did hero limits before that. Those are bigger changes than 5v5 if you ask me. Albeit, they weren’t as negatively received, rofl.

Personally I strongly disagree. Neither role queue or hero limits required as many drastic changes and reworks iirc.

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How, exactly? One is the entire removal of a player slot and rebalancing of the entire game to reflect that, the other is limitations.


222 required a rebalancing of the game that we never got, and it is pretty evident to people who don’t have their head in the sand that the game is on life support because those changes never happened…

No limits was a pretty easy fix. The game was instantly more balance. Lul.

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Thing is, they would spew poor and ill informed feedback regardless.

As I understood it, they were seriously considering it, and put it up because they were unsure which direction the game should go and wanted to gauge feedback.

Be careful what you wish for I’d say. 2 2 2 increased queue times exponentially. It’s not people’s fault because they want to play dps in a shooter. Big surprise.

You can’t simply have 15 minutes queue when OW2 launches. You’ll kill the game faster than anything else. Most likely they saw queue time drop significantly and decided to go with it.

People asked for role lock that goes entire premise of OW as a game. They didn’t want to get better. Instead asked for an easy hero like brig. Now they’re complaining about lack of tank.

Funniest thing: people are complaining about off tanks going away from OWL team but how often people say everything devs are doing is to cater pros and content creators?

Yes, but they will do it far worse when you give them tangible evidence via an unfinished product. It’s what dumb people do - they use bad logic and then reinforce it with worse logic.

Jeff explicitly stated the exact opposite. They said it was a failed experiment and they were making ti available solely for the community to have some fun.

I was always careful what I wished for, but the devs always did the opposite. I don’t really care, I got my worth out of the game at this point. They can make it a MOBA if they want, I have been over my opinion for years now.

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People already do that with what info and footage we have right now. More isn’t going to change much.

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As a community I mean. Do you remember the first few months after role lock came out and double shield meta? It was the worst experience to play tank in. Sigma is probably more boring to play than Orisa. At least with Orisa you can make some plays with teammates. With Sigma you just spammed in a choke to get ult that was way over the top. It was worse than playing against a brig 1.0.

Anyways, they never rebalanced the game. While I’ll play before making my judgement ($60 isn’t a lot if they release the pve anyways), I can already see these heroes having higher utilities across different elos:

Echo (free teamfight win if you copy tank).
Sym (free shield with ult).
Any sniper (free shooting gallery).
Mei (second tank)
Zen (delete the take and you win)
Winston (free elo because you need more than reaper to counter a good winston)

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The post you linked was largely a response due to someone else bringing it up and he was like “oh cool we were doing this experiment internally already!”

I was referring more towards his comments from the developer update. Specifically at this timestamp:

He talks about how this is an effort to “get feedback and give insight into our design process.” In the software world this is usually code for “it’s a failed experiment but we want your feedback on it to help drive future ideas” - much in the same way that some of the ideas in the April Fools patch were semi-legitimate ideas they came up with, but not necessarily intending to do.

But you’re correct in that I did misquote him, I was wrong there. I stated he said this explicitly and he did not. It was merely heavily implied.

I dont think you understand. This isn’t “more info.” There’s no additional info to get. It’s not done. They’d be giving people wrong and inaccurate information because in its current state, it’s not an accurate representation of the final product.

It’d be like saying you dont like anchovies on your pizza, but instead of letting someone cook you a proper one, you demand that they give it to you raw and uncooked because you dont want to wait. It’s very plausible you may still dislike the properly cooked pizza, but you you’re not going to give it a fair attempt if you dont consume it how it was meant to be cooked.

Maybe test 5v5 along with the hero and ability adjustments they’re currently using?

I realize that would essentially be an open beta and if people hate it it could be a huge risk, but then again if they are so sure they’re going this route, which they should be after showing it to the world yesterday, they should dare to prove that it works for the skepticals.

That’s more pessimistic than the software world I live in. When I hear that it’s code for “this is a cool feature one of our engineers came up with but we don’t really know how to incorporate it into the product, so we’re gonna actually ask people about it instead of ramming it straight to prod or shelving it indefinitely”.

So is it info or not, and how does it differ from what we’ve already been given?

I’m not saying that we should be handed the final product, but that we should be able to smell the pizza as it bakes; it would help us understand why it’s being baked in the first place.

Seems like they’re pretty set on going through with it. I don’t think they see any point in seeking public opinion for these changes, so why would they want poison the well with an incomplete set of changes :man_shrugging:t2:

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. At the time when 1-3-2 was released, the consensus even on the forum seemed well understood that it wasn’t something that was going to come to live in any real form. You can do a search on the forums and reddit - I was certainly not the only person with this impression.

Sorry, that’s a poor choice of wording on my part.

What I mean is that this isn’t like a real world event where there are a set of facts and you’re being provided with more data to form a more and more informed opinion. The “data” in this case is incomplete, and what you’d be testing is not a valid representation of the situation. What you’d be given would be untrue or at best extremely inaccurate in the final version of the product.

Without the necessary balance changes and reworks to the heroes, you’re not actually getting the actual 5v5 experience. You’re getting OW1 with one less tank. Those aren’t the same thing, and you and I both know that people will be judging it as the latter, not the former. If 5v5 already had a bad first impression for many people, a second impression that isn’t actually balanced would only solidify those bad first impressions with even worse second impressions.

And what I’m saying is that anything they give us any time soon would not yet be in the process of being baked. It will be a long long time before they even put something in the oven.