Update about the 10/21/2021 Experimental Card

You may think it’s ludicrous but it wouldn’t be the worst idea. Actions do speak louder than words in the end so we’ll see.

Once again, thanks for posting this at all.

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Genuinely thank you so much for this!!!

After reading this, I now have to wonder how things might change for these characters now. Is Junk being left alone, or is he just getting numbers tinkered with? What about Cassidy? Is he going to not have this more mobile roll, or will they keep it, with a future change to balance it out? Torb too, from what I heard, Torb seemed to be fine, but with what the devs gathered, is Torb going to keep anything or is he gonna be left alone? Moira is the one that sounds the most sure, being likely a keeper, but nothing’s quite confirmed just yet. I guess only time will tell.

And I have to spill this because my mind is so curious about Sym in OW2, as to what they might plan to do with her. Or will they plan to mess with Sym earlier than that? Beats me. I just know that Sym isn’t looking pretty, and does need some help. I just am hoping that there will be an update soon that can have us know what, exactly, will happen to Sym, for either OW or OW2? Is she staying as a DPS, or is she going to go back to Support? Either road, what is the goal/purpose for her? There’s so many questions I have towards just Sym alone. I can go deeper into what I have heard and researched on what exactly is wrong with Sym if u need me to, but I’ll only spill that if it’s ok to do so. I’m unsure if I should spill that info here, where we are talking about the Experimental, which has nothing to do with Sym as of currently.

It’s beneficial to be a perpetual student when you’re a CM. I am always reading new studies, new whitepapers, and listening to experts in fields like behavioral psychology and sociology. Understanding what motivates players beyond what we see on the surface is key to being effective facillitators of conversation. Plus it’s heck of interesting.

I’m somewhat familiar with Vroom-Yetton (Jago). Like many leadership philosophies, it lends itself well to community management.


Tbh, this is not a threa to talk about this and i honestly dont want to derail it nor discuss too much about it but i will give my thoughts before leaving.

Ball and Doom are heroes that heavily rely on movement and momentum Flashbancg completely stops both and, with a decent team that follows the stun, its pretty much a death sentence for either of them. FtH does enough damage to either kill Doom or pressure him to leave, similar case for ball.

You dont neeed to kill them to deny their value, flash and fth will easily do that and do remember that with the 225 is harder for both doom and ball to properly get the kill.

OW is not your average shooter, i dont think many shooters have a guy with a hammer, Doom and balls kits may be annoynig to play against but they do fit with the OW universe that takes pride, or used to, in not being a simple shooter game.

Every hero is meant to have weaknesses, his limited mobility is compensated by flashbang, he may not be able to escape the combos but flashbang is enough to stop them and maybe even turn the battle in his favor.

Ill answer this one mostly becuase i hate this argument, widow can one shot pretty mcuh every hero from across the map with little to no danger, Doom has to literally dive in and blow all his cooldowns in a do or die attempt to get some value. Both take skill but in no way shape or form widow´s one shot is more justifiable than doom´s combos.


Andy said most players are rational. It’s widely known these forums are typically anything but rational.

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Truthfully? Yes.

The lack of developer communication and clarification in the past has lead quite a few people here to believe things like this, or that you guys rig the matchmaker to force them to lose - either by completely mischaracterizing (or extrapolating) past dev quotes that are then never clarified, or by just making baseless statements that other people blindly trust.


And most people in here are angry 15 year olds. There’s no logical reason why game devs would purposely try to sabatoge a role in the game they created when it’s in their best interest to make it a good experience for all roles, otherwise their game fails.

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He perfectly summarised the feedback in an unbiased fashion, whilst providing input from various viewpoints. How is that not paying attention? :thinking:


It’s hard to discuss Doom and consistency without discussing bugs. I’m not generalizing to all MOBA elements as I don’t think there is any value in that discussion but I don’t think anyone that plays Doom would call him consistent.

Why are you not flash/fanning Doom? I’ll repeat - flash him before he lands abilities. Otherwise, the match starts to go in Doom’s favour or is skill dependent.

Yes GQO is a master of his craft, yet can’t get out of masters. Funny that. Every single one trick can play against their counters sometimes.

This is where I stop replying, sir. I don’t do hyperbole.

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I don’t know, League of Legends seems to prove that wrong: same with Apex Legends, to an extent. Honestly, nothing’s too big to fail, and one’s arrogance or ignorance can lead to downfall: especially if they are the captain at the helm.

AndyB is the best!


I think he can’t believe people are so unreasonable to think that devs would deliberately do something that would obviously damage their product, like make a role undesirable.

A rational person would look at a game with 32 unique heroes, multiple maps and millions of players and assume that it’s literally impossible to predict all outcomes of a change and that some changes will have unintended consequences because, you know, human beings are making decisions without the aid of a time machine.

But unfortunately, we are mostly reduced to “buff my main because I died in my last game and if you don’t, you HATE ME” style conversations here.


Who said that? I’m so confused of where you’re getting that from.

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Meanwhile me, a diamond rat:




Forum not ready for this but Cree does need a small buff IMO abysmal WR. Just not the mid-air roll all it does is make certain match ups very one-sided which the game needs less of. I still want the increased fire rate, lowered fall off, and 200hp.

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I made a thread about lack of communication about the direction of the balance changes, so I really appreciate you taking the time to make this thread, keep up the good work my guy!

But unfortunately, we are mostly reduced to “buff my main because I died in my last game and if you don’t, you HATE ME” style conversations here.

The most concerning thing about this post is the fact that they actually consider feedback from these forums…

Jeff Keplan himself has stated that certain heroes are regulated to the niche department because they don’t fit well into the grand scheme of things, aka how the developers WANT the game to be played. The problem being that certain heroes like Mcree are picked for buffs when other heroes are actively doing worse than him and are ignored because those heroes aren’t part of the “grand scheme” of things.

Not everyone wants to play the game according to how the developers want them to play the game. Most people have their favorite heroes and only want to play those heroes, so when heroes like Symmetra, Mei, reaper, Bastion are left to flounder because its detrimental towards “game health” for them to be more widely picked, its creates a deserved perception that the developers are actively playing favorites.


Not true. Some heroes are incredibly strong in certain situations and have to be balanced around that.
Also some are not fun to play into and are just bad game design.
Bastion and mei are getting reworked. Sym is a no aim character with ez mechanics that still seen play in OWL. Not sure what else you want.