You know funny about this ‘unfun’ argument? WHen it comes to THEIR hero when people say its unfun to play against them, its suddenly not okay. Oh playing against my hero is unfun but playing against yours isnt?
What kind of bs double standard is that? That completely shatters the idea of this argument as it only serves as a "its only convinient if its the hero i dislike except when its my hero’.
But Mei has been in the game since launch??
Unfun to play against 6 stack, unfun to play vs enemy team has two supports… So overwatch is not, considered by community, CoD; half moba, so in mobas stuns are exists, so EAT IT!
This is very false. The developers don’t factor fun in their nerfs and buffs simply because everybody’s concept of fun varies subjectively. The only subjective factor that they take into consideration is how fair an ability is. Otherwise everything is based on objective statistics and overall feedback from the top pro players. Brigitte (also D.va, Zenyatta, post rework Mercy) changes were made due to her overperforming, not because the community went BabyRage. Roadhog and other one-shot ability related changes (Hanzo, Doomfist) were changed because the developers saw these abilities to be unfair. There’s a vast difference between unfair and unfun.
Then there’s Mercy’s rework which was not only put through because mass rez felt unfair but because her kit was fundamentally flawed and unhealthy (deemed by developers). The reason was never that it was very unfun (which was the popular opinion despite being irrelevant) and implying this is the best way to take away credibility from your constructive arguments as it’s simply false.
“unfun to play against” is the short answer.
The longer and more accurate answer is this:
This mechanic is faulty due to one of these reasons.
1-The mechanic requires little to no risks with high reward
2- The mechanic is really difficult to prevent, while it heavily contributes.
3- The mechanic is promoting a type of gameplay that isn’t acceptable or intended.
4- The mechanic is making the entire hero be focused around it, making everything else about that hero an irrelevant aspect.
When one or more of these factors become the case of an ability, they change it. So, please stop with taking every single word literally and understand the meaning behind them instead.
In case of res, the ability was difficult to prevent, had high rewards for little to no efforts, promoted hide and res gameplay which was not an intended aspect of mercy, and made sure that mercy had nothing else to offer other than that ultimate, focusing her entire kit on that one thing.
So all four of those issues in one ability.
Why are people acting like this only became a thing with Mercy, even though the Devs stated other reasons as well? Why are people acting like they didn’t do exactly this “unfun” BS to get Roadhog nerfed and in the pitiful state he is in now?
I’d rather die from Brigitte’s combo than a double dink or Hanzo/widow headshot. Not saying I disagree with your main point but it’s not fair to say stuns and things along those lines are hated by everyone and unfair/unfun. I have no problem with stuns, freezes, hacks, etc… and it’s not fair to assume everyone hates them. There is more counterplay to a close up stun than a widow trick shot or Hanzo’s ridiculous primary fire (and storm arrow), at least in my opinion.
Junkrats latest nerf dev comments (he was not dominating OWL/GM or had insane pick rates or anything like that that some people seem to think is required for nerfs when he got the latest ones):
Developer Comments: These changes are aimed at lowering some of the most frustrating parts about playing against Junkrat. Decreasing the Frag Launcher’s projectile size means he will have to aim a bit more carefully to land powerful direct hits and slowing the RIP-Tire’s movement speed gives his opponents slightly more time to destroy it before it detonates.
Makes you 
Blizzard has said in the past the they do not like abilities that take away players control of their hero.
They are straight up… Liars. That’s what this game is now. StunWatch.
Next hero I promise you, is going to be a ridiculously over powered, no aim required, stun you every few seconds junk of a hero… It’s what they are making this game into.
ah yes, using all her abilities to do a ONE hit K.O
math on this forums still adds up XD
Took quite a long break away from this game, and over the past week I’ve TRIED to get back into it and enjoy it but there’s one problem - Brigitte is in the game. With her addition, she has created the most ‘toxic’ game environments I’ve ever seen in this game. In my opinion, against uncoordinated teams she is THE most annoying hero that has ever been in the game, even moreso than Sombra’s old form when her hack was nearly instant. The amount of stuns/knockbacks/cc that SHE ALONE brings to this game gives you less time to play the game than a Fury Warrior on the WoW: BfA early Beta.
I would pick this sincr i can out range her…not with mc…
Valid my buttocks.
No hero should ever be “fun to play against”. If they are, there’s something fundamentally wrong with the hero.
well said. 10more chars
None of the characters are really unfun to play against. You want to see unfun? Play pvzgw2. You don’t like being frozen? Try getting turned into a goat. Don’t like being stunned? How about getting one-shot out of nowhere by an invisible chomper that was hiding under the ground. And that chomper also has a one-shot as it’s primary attack. THAT’S unfun to play against
Exactly, every hero in this game is in some way ‘unfun’ to fight against. Youre not supposed to have fun fighting against each heroes.
It feels like people just want to fight against training bots or those zomnics from the Halloween event instead. Its like they want punching bags instead.
Generally, I feel there’s two things that determine whether something is ‘fun to play against’ or not.
Effort/reward value
Counterplay
This is why people generally don’t mind McCree, and have less problems with Genji or Tracer than with, say, Junkrat, Widowmaker and Brigitte.
Particularly Brigitte is a big offender on the first point. Stuns, disables, they’re fine in moderation. Mei’s stun lasts longer than Brigitte’s for example, but she’s lower on the frustration list. Much lower. Why? Well, Mei needs to track you, she’s much less durable than Brigitte, and she needs a second to set up the stun, rather than Brigitte’s instant stop.
You have some time to disengage from Mei once she latches onto you, and you have time to weaken her and even force her to retreat or freeze herself before she’s in range.
This applies less to Brigitte, who has an incredibly overweight shield to sit behind, and can dash to instant-stun you, with no aim required.
And then she can bop you for 155 without you getting a chance to play on.
Low effort, high reward is also seen as an issue with Symmetra (Although the lock-on beam’s limited range in conjunction with a no-mobility, low survivability character make her effort value hard to distinguish, making her more fair than she looks) and Junkrat.
Lack of counterplay is a big deal with Widowmaker and Hanzo, the latter now moreso than the former. A lot of characters cannot fight a Widowmaker, and will have no choice but to constantly cripple their own gameplay to avoid getting oneshot by her. Hanzo’s just a general mess at the moment.
There’s lots of characters that are okay to play against despite meeting some criteria for being ‘unfun’. Winston for example has a very, -very- low effort ratio when facing him, but, he also gives you plenty of time to counterplay due to low reward. Tracer has high reward, but also high effort. Hanzo -used to- have high effort (Outside of scattershot, which absolutely was horridly unfun) as a sniper and made for a much healthier character than Widowmaker. Zarya’s effort-reward ratio gets screwed when she’s high energy, but again, she offers counterplay in just not charging her.
Reworking a hero because of being ‘unfun to play against’ is a perfectly solid reason.
I would completely argue against your Mei and Brigitte comparison…
She has 250 hp. The top 50 isn’t armor but for the majority of the cast, that only counts as 5 more hp anyway. Cry-Freeze makes her invulnerable for 4 seconds and can heal her for 150 hp.
She doesn’t have Brig’s shield but Mei’s stun is associated with her main attack…Which also happens to have almost double the range of Rocket Flail and almost double the range of Shield Bash. Let’s not forget her left click not only climaxes in a stun but it also slows on hit making it impossible for characters without a mobility ability to escape. Talking about attacking Mei before she gets in range is just as, and more, applicable to Brigitte. And before you mention her shield…If she tries to use her shield close the distance while holding it up…She moves 30% slower, meaning if you just press S, you’ll be moving 20% faster than she does…
To cap it off she also has an Ice Wall that can isolate individuals or fractions of the enemy team so that your team can punish them.
Yes, Cry-Freeze makes her invulnerable, but it also makes her unable to attack or move, allowing her target to disengage if she wants to get any healing out of it.
Yes, her M1 has longer range, but the combined range of shield bash and rocket flail is longer. You have to remember that Shield Bash also doubles as a mobility skill. At that point, Brigitte is in range and wailing away at you without having to aim, dealing chip damage but also restoring her own health in the process.
Mei has an icewall, yes, but Brigitte gets both a heal pack on the side and her whipshot for long range support and long range self-healing and knockback and damage.
Assuming perfect accuracy, it takes Mei 1.5 seconds to freeze you. At perfect accuracy, you have quite a bit of time to take her down. This does not apply to Brigitte, who hits you instantly.
Again, Mei has to aim, Brigitte barely has to. That 1.5 seconds can be extended by skillfull dodging, and is usually extended by default on account of Mei being extremely unlikely to have immaculate aim.
Brigitte’s shield bash is -very- difficult to miss. Giving you less counterplay opportunity, and skewing the effort/reward ratio.
The aspect of something being fun or not doesn’t have to do anything with balance.
Someone might find it unfun to get their controll taken away from their character or get oneshot. That doesn’t inherently mean these abilities are UP / balanced / OP.
For example Reinhardt’s charge is stun/ohk and I have yet to see a post about how it is “unfun to play against” even though people generaly rant about OHK abilities / combos / snipers and stuns like Brigittes.