Tracer holds 42/50 of top played damage heroes in top 500

General Discussion
21

I agree with rein, JQ, ram, mauga, and hog being weak to anti nade. But I disagree about every other tank you mentioned. They all have ways to play around sleep dart/nade easily…

I think the issue is that they keep creating these “brawler” type tanks but doesn’t give them much ways of playing around certain abilities like ana nade.

But here’s the issue, if you’re playing a brawler tank, you should be complaining about more things too, not just nade. Like snipers who can deal damage to you across the map while you pretty much have no way of interating them unless you get close. That puts a limit on how effectively you can play brawler tank too and idk why people aren’t complaining about that but only ana.

Also, we were so against anti-nade and now we have the DPS passive. Now, DPS players turn around and claim that these are “needed” because tanks are over-powered and unkillable without it. So which is it? Do tanks explode or are they unkillable?

1 Like
22

It is a pretty universal tank complaint.

During the 2nd OW beta we even got stats from Blizzard on the amount of dmg taken by tanks compared to DPS they deal per 10 minutes. You have damage taken values all the way from as low as 11k to as high as 25k at worst. However, the avg dmg was around 7-8k dmg

Most of that damage has to be healed off by supports, so anti-healing is the biggest threat to a tanks existence. We even went so far as to nerf sleep dart specifically on tanks from 5sec to 3.5sec. There is no way DPS or supports take anywhere near the same amount of abuse as tanks.

The rewards vs risk is hugely out of porportion on tanks for Ana compared to her trying to bionade or sleep dart other smaller targets like DPS or supports.

2 Likes
23

Says who? Dive meta significantly limits the hero pool. Anyone that doesn’t want to Play Tracer/Genji/Sombra will suffer.

There is nothing good about 1 dps character taking up 42/50 slot.

24

Thats great because that is the favourite dps hero to play in top 500 and the great thing is it does not effect you or 99.9% of the playerbase.

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25

Its risk vs reward. Why would you ever bother wasting your shots on a tank when you can 1shot a 200hp DPS or support? A widowmaker requires 2 back to back headshots to kill a weaker tank or 3+ to kill a tank. Not worth it in the slightest.

It is far harder to land headshots than it is to land a bionade or sleep dart at a key moment on most tanks. The hitboxes on the projectiles are large and tanks are large.

Tanks are unkillable for many DPS because they are not designed for taking down tanks or even challenging them well. Any sniper or bursty hero has no business wasting time on tanks. Many DPS it is a numerical shift. Which is well over the roster. Tanks have so much bulk and with healing behind them that its a very slow way to take them down to combat healing.

Bionade is a super simple way of bypassing all of them. A unit gets to about say half health, bionade them and collapse on them when no helaing can interrupt.

A few DPS can deal with tanks, but its still better value to go after supports or DPS for lower health pools. Junkrat mine + blast used to be a death combo. YOu can use storm arrow on tanks, but its still only ~300 dmg.

The shift with DPS getting anti-healing means Ana is not as required anymore. WHich lead to upper ranks running super hyper offenses with Zen/Brig/Moira/Lucio compositions at the start of the season. Healing was so weak it wasnt’ worth it to run brawly or even poke comps compared to fast, evasive comps.

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26

I don’t think that it’s such a “hot take”, to be honest. As a high risk, high reward hero that takes quite a bit of skill to get the latter, it’s logical that she gets a lot use from the most skillful of us.

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27

You could say the same for kiriko then, so I don’t agree about the risk vs reward thing. As long as the ability can be played around, it doesn’t matter how easy they are to land.

Sombra only having to hold right click while staying invisible to cancel ult isn’t what’s annoying. The annoying part is how you can’t really play around it as a tank when ulting. Especially as orisa since you can’t shoot the sombra out of hack while ulting.

Like-wise, kiriko constantly using suzu off cooldown can be very annoying for tank players like junker queen who’s ulting, doomfist player trying to land their empowered punch, rein trying to land their charge, etc. So anti-nade isn’t the only easy to land ability with little to no risk. Plenty of others exist too.

So I agree with your first bit of argument about anti-nade being oppressive to OTP tanks who only play brawlers. I guess we agree to disagree on other points you’ve made about sleep dart/anti-nade being oppressive to doom/winston/orisa/sigma/d.va.

Ana is still playable, I think the meta just doesn’t favor her because it’s so hard for her to survive. I don’t think it’s got much to do with DPS passive making anti-heal invalid, since it’s not like ana was played every game even when she was strong.

I don’t know why people keep thinking ana was “required” to take down the tanks. The only time that was true was when mauga was OP. But even then, there were still other ways to debuff the tanks too, like zen’s orb of discord.

The DPS passive being implemented probably suggests that healing and defensive ability from supports (as well as their own sustain/survivability) were a little too strong. But because those never got nerfed, the DPS passive ended up solving the problem indirectly.

28

Hit Diamond again seeing Tracer but way less she is strong but not dominating anything here.

29

ye but that doesnt mean its accurate

plenty of top 500 tank mains have come out and said things along the lines of

“if you complain about ana as a tank you are bad”

because most tanks have some way to fight against her cooldowns, you can block it, bait it, dodge it and so on.

there are some tanks that suffer alot more against her (most are brawl tanks) but as i said thats a matter of them not picking the right hero for the job

ana is annoying but shes always been a hero you could find a work around while on tank (that doesnt require you to have perfect aim)

like if you compare dps complaining about supports (pre s9) and tanks complaining about supports, the tank one is very silly

tanks are already powerful heroes, good self sustain with good dmg so they can 1v1 almost any hero for free.

when dps were doing it, it was because several heroes passively negated our value

tl;dr

all roles apply pressure

tanks hold space and apply pressure

supports heal and apply pressure

and dps apply pressure

but dps wernt better at applying pressure then tank or support so it felt really bad in comparison

so dps complained that they could pressure out cooldowns

this is a valid complaint because no matter how good you were the only way a dps could negate a supports power was too kill them (which in of itself was alot more difficult for the dps then it was for the support to do)

tanks can negate ana by simply playing better (not by killing her)

any tank can bait her CDs and the better you get the easier it is to predict when they’ll use em so you can block them or outright dodge them.

most tanks have some way to directly block e or absorb em

just because someone complaints about something doesnt mean its factual

supports were strong in season 1 but they complained about the role being bad because they kept trying to heal bot and it wasnt working

the same is true now, if a dps is complaining bout supports being OP that dps is bad. while it was true in s8 its not in s9 because the dps passive allows us to apply more pressure as that’s our only job.

ull rarely see a tank unironically complain about ana if they dont main heroes like hog, ram or sometimes rein. even ball players dont really care about ana because they can survive the sleep and anti. doom can just avoid being slept by not playing bad (or simply not playing doom into an ana without a dive partner)

just because something CAN be annoying doesnt mean its broken.

this would be like dps heroes complaining about sombra because she can in theory 1v1 every hero with her combo (which sadly ppl still do)

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30

And then they added brig and she was made usless because anyone with no skill could combo her

31

Nah, I hate Ana and Tracer soft counters her.

The worst part is, Ana is one of the healthiest Supports in the game in terms of skill:reward. The issue with her is that her abilities are unhealthy AF and suck to play against even when you’re not the one hit by them…

32

I feel like it’s worth saying that Ana had something insane like a 130% pickrate for most of OW2. Tracer’s pickrate is considered a problem right now and it’s nowhere NEAR Ana’s.