To those who are saying "Reinhardt is the strongest tank in the game":

I have been seeing quite a few threads come up recently claiming that Reinhardt is the strongest tank (and some people even saying the strongest hero) in the game. These threads also, a lot of the time, bash on people who were previously advocating for Reinhardt needing help. I have a metric-crud-ton of thoughts on this. With that in mind, I want to put pen to paper (metaphorically speaking, of course) with those thoughts on this topic.

Introduction

First, I want to discuss why people are saying that Reinhardt is strong. This is because of the sometimes-deceptive nature of statistics. Often, we look to numbers to paint us an objective and neutral picture, and then try to use those numbers as facts. However, statistics often require context to paint the full picture, or else you could end up with a drastically distorted image. I think this is true in the case of Reinhardt. Right now, Reinhardt is the most picked hero in the game in ranked Grandmasters games. While this might lead one to conclude that Rein is the strongest hero in the game, this is not necessarily true when you look at the bigger picture.

Consider this: On the last day of Season 9, Reinhardt was still not considered even remotely meta, at least not at the top end of the ladder. Dive was still king, and Reinhardt was still considered to be unplayable in most situations (save King’s Row and Lijiang: Control Center). Fast forward to the first day of Season 10, just 3 days later, and all of a sudden Reinhardt is the most picked tank. Yet Reinhardt nor Winston (the previous most picked main tank) received any changes. So what is the only thing that changed? Brigitte was introduced.

Brigitte, Dive, & the Meta-game

That’s right. Everything is exactly the same, but Brigitte is introduced. So why does this impact Reinhardt so heavily? Yes, it is partially due to the fact that Brigitte begs to play in a deathball and that is the play style that Reinhardt brings with him, but it is in truth due to one bigger reason; Brigitte absolutely shuts down dive.

To understand this further, once again, you have to understand the context. For over a year Dive was the king of the hill at the top ranks. It got so bad that there was a ton of public outcry for a hero that would counter dive. And so Blizzard cooked up Brigitte, and she does her job. In fact, she crushes at that role. So much so that Tracer, Genji, Winston, and D.Va (Dive) disappeared overnight.

This is the real reason Reinhardt looks so strong right now. During that entire year or so, where Dive was the sole viable composition, Reinhardt was countered so heavily by Winston and friends that he was almost never played. Dive is what completely shuts him down; it is his ‘Kryptonite’. With all of those Dive heroes gone, Reinhardt’s counters are gone with it. He is left unchecked and so he appears unstoppably strong.

That is far from the truth, though. Reinhardt may seem to be the strongest hero now, but his foundation is built on a house of cards. Brigitte is clearly a very strong hero right now, and Reinhardt’s entire place in the meta revolves around her. If Brigitte ever gets nerfed into the ground to the point where she ceases to be played, Reinhardt’s play rate will plummet with it, and we will go right back to Dive meta.

Main Tank Balance: Rock, Paper, Scissors

Please do not mistake me, I do not mean to say that I don’t want Dive to be viable; that is not what I’m saying at all. In fact, it is just the opposite: I want every composition to be viable. I think the game should work on a rock, paper, scissors premise, revolving around the main tanks. What I mean by that is that each main tank carries a play style, or composition, with them. Reinhardt creates deathball, Winston creates dive, and Orisa creates bunker comps. What I believe needs to happen is that these comps need to counter each other in a triangular fashion. For example, dive would counter deathball, deathball would counter bunker comp, and bunker comp would counter dive (or something to that effect).

I believe this would be the most healthy for the game as it would keep heroes who thrive in each comp viable and played, and create a huge diversity of play styles for each player to master. It would also reward deep hero pools, understanding and mastery of strategy, and effective communication/teamwork skills. But is it too farfetched? I do not think so, no. I think balancing the game around just three heroes primarily, and everything else secondarily would be very achievable.

For that to happen though, two things would need to happen first: (1) Brigitte would need to be brought in line to allow Dive to be viable again. (2) The main tanks would all need to be tweaked until their play rates were as close to 33.33% as possible. If Brigitte was tweaked to be played less, Reinhardt’s play rate would fall with it, and so he would likely need some small tweaks to improve his standing.

Overwatch League: Stage 4

Another thing I want to touch on briefly is Reinhardt’s pick-rate in the Overwatch league so far this stage. In Stage 4, currently Reinhardt is not even the most picked tank, let alone hero. Winston still beats him for highest main tank pick-rate (with D.Va having an even higher pick-rate than Winston). If Reinhardt is as strong as people are suggesting, why are the professionals not abusing him? Or do people seriously think they know better than the likes of the New York Excelsior or even the Shanghai Dragons?

Not to even mention that Reinhardt’s win rate right now so far in Stage 4 is a meager 45%, which is the lowest of all of the tanks. Yes, that’s right… all. of. the. tanks. Granted, the patch is not entirely up to date, but that should have nothing to do with anything, since none of the main tanks have been touched during that time. If anything, if the patch were current in the Overwatch League, Reinhardt’s play rate and win rate would likely suffer from Brigitte’s nerf. Just some food for thought.

Codependency Issues

Next, I want to talk about some opinion-based stuff. I want to talk about how I personally feel that Reinhardt is the only main tank that is so closely tied to another hero for viability. Sure, you could make a case for Winston and D.Va, but I do not think that is any more mandatory than Zarya with Reinhardt, or Hog with Winston. Either way, I main tanks are supposed to be the building blocks of the team. You pick them first, then fill around them. Currently, the way it works is that you pick Brigitte, then fill around her. That is not how things should work in any game involving Tank, Healer, and DPS roles. It should always be that the main tank dictates the play style.

That said, in the game right now, you are forced into playing deathball because the strongest hero (I feel) on the ladder is Brigitte, and she demands deathball. This means that you must play Reinhardt to maximize the synergy. All the while, you are a giant punching bag, getting knocked around by everything.

How it feels to play Reinhardt

Which leads me into my last point: how it actually feels to play Reinhardt. Playing Reinhardt feels horrible. It is a never-ending wave of being beaten like a pinata at a young boy’s birthday party. You are booped around like a pinball, and then stunned, into a stun, into a punch into the wall. There is nothing you can do to stop this, as there is no way for Reinhardt to counter a shield bash, which starts the chain CC. You cannot even counter-charge it! Half the heroes in the game can disrupt your charge ability, and a lot of the time you are stunned during your ultimate and lose it entirely. Even when you are not, you have to pray to the bug gods that your shatter and/or charge is not sacrificed to them to maintain their appeasement (which is a topic for countless other threads).

To sum it all up, it sometimes feels like the enemy has more control over your character than you do. That is not okay, especially when you consider that the fantasy of Reinhardt is that he is supposed to be a massive warrior on the front-lines who should be heavy and durable, and able to protect his team from harm. Pretty hard to do that last thing when you are stunned all of the dang time.

How can you all expect players to fill into a role that feels like that?

TL;DR:

Reinhardt is not as strong as people are arguing. Yes, his pick-rate is high, but that is only because he is being propped up by Brigitte, who counters all of his biggest counters (AKA dive). Take her away and all of those dive heroes come back, which in turn means Rein is right back where he was just a few short weeks ago, before Brigitte was pushed to competitive. That speaks volumes to Brigitte, not Reinhardt.

Bonus Content

Here is a bonus video where RichC and I share our thoughts on the current meta and the state of the main tanks + Brigitte:

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Brigitte has already been brought in-line.

Deathball received the following indirect buffs

Removal of ult charge from health packs for Sombra

LOS checks for Sombra

Pulse bumb nerf to Tracer

Damage nerf to D.va

Junkrat projectile size reduced, riptire speed decreased, mine damage fall-off

Genji deflect nerf

Hanzo 2.0

Brigitte

Currently it seems that, while map dependent, it’s the now the tank counter to dive.

I think whatever comp Symmetra slots into will counter deathball and be countered by dive.

They suggested teleporting Ana to the highground, for example.

They probably pushing for something like

Dive < deathball < Sym < dive

I (very much respectfully) disagree that Brigitte has been brought in-line, but we will see.

Welp, either way… Thank you for reading my tremendously long post, and contributing to the conversation. I truly appreciate it!

I just want to ask, why is it so that dive counters Reinhardt?
Isn’t diving into a death ball suppose to be quite difficult?

If D.va or Winston use their mobility to get into a fight, aren’t they practically a sitting duck for a charge?

Because Reinhardt must choose between dealing damage and mitigating damage. He cannot do both. If he swings to damage them, his team has no damage mitigation. If he holds up his shield, the dive heroes have such good mobility that they can simply go around it from any angle. Reinhardt cannot protect from every angle. Even without going around the barrier, many of them have ways of simply ignoring it all together anyway.

It’s a lose-lose situation that usually ends up with the deathball dying because they are so clumped and easy for Winston to tesla and Genji to dash through.

It is high risk. If you miss, you come away with nothing and leave your entire team to die. Even if you land it, you are still not there to peel for your backline against the other threats. Mostly though it is just too unreliable to land consistently.

Brig counters MM. She dies to strategy not mechanics. It isn’t even that hard to do. Just wait for the Hanzo you definitely have to hit a few shots then kill her. Wait for the engagement to favor you. Hanzo is the problem Brig is not. Even before Brig’s nerfs this was true.

She’s the least picked of the deathball comp and had been trending downwards even before her nerf. If you look at OWL, she’s increased hero diversity and hasn’t been too strong or too weak. Dive is still run plenty of maps that allow it.

I think there are even some pros that said if new Hanzo had been on the patch, they would all just be running Hanzo-Brig because it’s that good.

ETA:

Meanwhile, even though Brigitte’s pickrate has went down, Reinhardt’s has not. It’s really not on all on Brigitte. New Hanzo is going to bring Zarya, and Zarya is gonna bring Reinhardt. Brigitte certainly helps because she can counter anyone that tries to dive the Hanzo, but she’s not mandatory anymore.

ETA 2: Did you know that Winston based dive actually started with teams building around elite Genjis, only for teams to quickly realize that Genji was the least important member of that comp? I feel like that’s kinda happening with Brigitte.

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Doesn’t that defeat the purpose of your point?

Yes, but in my experience what I have noticed is this:

The mere existence of Brigitte just keeps opposing teams from choosing to go dive heroes in the first place. Even if the other team doesn’t have one, players will still be apprehensive of switching to flankers and dive tanks due to fear that the other team will simply switch to Brigitte and shut them down.

Anyway, getting back to Reinhardt:

See the overwatch league part of my post. If Reinhardt is so strong, why is he the third most picked tank and not the first? Why does he have the lowest win percentage?

What an interesting post. A bit long, but it was good to read. I agree with several point, not all, but a decent amount. I can’t say that I know everything there is to know with Reinhardt, since I don’t play tanks… I am more of a Support specialist…

But I can see that Reinhardt is not the strongest tank in the game. Its just that the current meta just favors him. If anything, he would need a slight buff at minimum… or a full on buff. Specially since Symmetra 3.0 is coming, and she will be a full on counter to Reinhardt with her microwave microwaving shields, melting them faster than throwing an ice cream to the sun.

Reinhardt doesn’t deserve that. lol. I may not play tanks, and I may not know the ins and outs of tanks, but I still love my Reinhardt. He is the one and only daddy Reinhardt. lol. And the people who main Reinhardt deserve to have fun too when playing him. Just adding more and more things to destroy tanks isn’t really fun.

I know I didn’t add much to the convo… just that I kind of agree.

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I am beyond glad that you took the time out of your night (or whatever time it is where you are) to read my ridiculously long post. Thank you so much, and I’m glad you agree with some of what I said.

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Good to see you Frag👍

Always a pleasure☺️

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Glad to contribute to the forums with my ludicrously large post.

Thanks for reading/bumping.

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Anytime man, anytime.

You need Jelly, just ask😎

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No, because it shows that Hanzo is propping up Brigitte’s pickrate similar to the way that Brigitte propelled Reinhardt back to the top of the pickrate. You can recognize the way that Brigitte is artificially inflating Reinhardt’s stats, so I hope you can understand what I mean by Hanzo doing that to Brigitte.

Hanzo far outclasses the other DPS, he’s basically a mandatory pick. That’s why even in games without Brigitte (and Rein/Zarya have 2x the pickrate as her, so they are definitely being run with or without her), people are still running Zarya and Rein. Because the grav+dragons combo is so good and Hanzo is so dominant. And if you run Zarya, you need Reinhardt. If you run Reinhardt and Hanzo, you’re really going to want to run Brigitte.

What you were saying was true when she was first introduced because people didn’t know how to play against her. But it’s remained true even as she’s fallen in the pickrate, been nerfed, and people have learned.

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First, I want to say that I am sorry if that came across hostile. I didn’t mean for it, my bad. Second, I don’t think that Hanzo does prop up Brig. I think the two are independently good, especially Hanzo. I don’t really see how Brigitte is essential to Hanzo’s success. Unless you mean that dive heroes are not a thing because of Brigitte, so that Hanzo has more room to breathe. That would make sense.

I can agree with this, I suppose.

Rein is perfectly balanced. You’re saying he only looks strong because the meta favors him. We’re all saying he only looked weak because the meta didn’t favor him.

Maybe it’s not Brigitte that’s op because she ended dive, maybe it’s dive that was too powerful and Brigitte brought balance back to the game (wanted to say force). The meta in OWL right now is the most diverse meta ever seen in overwatch.

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And yet Reinhardt still has the lowest win rate of any tank.

If that were true, I might be able to come to a mutual understanding with you, but that is not what everyone is saying. I’m seeing a lot of threads coming up as of recent claiming Reinhardt is the strongest hero in the game.

[quote=“Fragehardt-1291, post:8, topic:113219, full:true”]

If Brigitte is so strong against dive, why is it still the most run comp in OWL (according to you)?

Clearly the difference is Hanzo.

Yeah,its 11:40pm, but no worries, Im a night owl. lol.

But no need to thank me, Im glad that you actually made a good forum post. We been having a lot of trash unnecessary posts lately.

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They are both independently good, she’s good in OWL. That much is true.

However, Hanzo is propping her up indirectly.

See, if you bring Hanzo because he so far outclasses the other DPS, you’re going to want to bring Zarya. The reason being that the Dragons+Grav combo is just too good to pass up. It’s one of the most synergistic tank+DPS combos in the game.

If you run Zarya, you’re going to want to run Reinhardt. She’s not a main tank and Reinhardt being the best one to pair with her has been true since the beginning.

So now you have Reinhardt+Zarya+Hanzo. The other team is probably going to bring Zenyatta to counter your combo, so you bring Mercy to damage boost Hanzo’s dragons. Finally, Hanzo this particular setup can be vulnerable to being dived. So to protect Hanzo from being dived, who are you going to bring? Well, Brigitte of course.

The entire team is being revolved around Hanzo.

You’re bring Zarya so her ult combos with Hanzo. You’re only Reinhardt because you’re bringing Zarya, and Hanzo requires Zarya. You bring Mercy to damage boost Hanzo. You bring Brigitte to stop Hanzo from being dived. And you bring Zenyatta because at this point the only thing that can stop your team is a mirror comp, and you need transcendence to protect you from the enemy Hanzo’s dragons and to damage boost.

If the other team doesn’t bring anything to dive Hanzo, you don’t need Brigitte anymore. So you can swap her for another sniper.