4sure, those type of heroes just make normal person cringe.
Agree.
There is a big gap between Sym in comp and Sym in OWL.
Same with Sombra.
And she gets a rework.
Sym needs one too.
Thank you for taking the time to write the post.
However, this does not directly answer the question I asked (although this is difficult to answer for the TP).
I asked if the buff or nerfs are objectively buff or needs relative to the rest of the cast.
For this, it’s important to know her position in these parameters and their net impact on winning before and after the nerf.
E.g. adding 100hp to Pharah looks like an objective buff in isolation but if they buffed hitscan damage 400% then it would clearly be a net nerf.
Whatever helps you sleep at night. Talking to you feels like I’m talking to a kid with how erratic you are and how difficult it is for you to stay on topic & civil… Just guessing, are you somewhere around 16-20 years old? It’s not worth my time responding to 10 paragraphs when 1. nothing is going to happen to Sym until OW2, 2. Most of what you say isn’t worth responding to because it’s actually disconnected from reality and 3. you have the awful habit of putting words in peoples mouths & going off on tangents that jump through 10 hoops which makes civil coherent discussion impossible. I have better things to do than argue about something that isn’t going to be changed until OW2. There’s literally no point. Heck, you wasted time typing several paragraphs to other users that don’t even answer their question…to the point that they barely responded to you and repeated their question… See the issue? Your reading comprehension could use a lot of work. I think you start going off paragraph by paragraph without even truly reading what people say to you.
Maybe, just maybe it would be worth responding if you were capable of staying on topic and having a civil discussion, but you’re not. You project things onto people and make them try to explain away your delusional views of what they’ve said. I’m good. Please learn how to have a civil discussion, it’ll make you somewhat bearable to speak with. You should take note how my end of the discussion remained coherent & civil… While yours quickly went down the rabbit hole. Don’t blame others for leaving what’s supposed to be an adult conversation because you’re not capable of having one.
Best of luck to you…
God I am so tired of this kind of thinking. Why are players on Sym and Mei not allowed to have fun too? Basically let’s only let Tracer, Ball and Genji mains have fun and to heck with everyone else.
3 Likes
1st off the comparison provided before directly shows you how her balance is post-nerfs relative to others in the state of the game.
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orbs pretty much unchanged, but as shown before, they’re trash numerically to start with
- legit, having the cons of a sniper weapon in having sniper-tier low firerate which demands more precision per shot as there’s less shots to make in a period of time, yet it physically cannot be precise in most ranges as it’s simply so slow that how the enemy reacts is often more important than the sym’s aim in whether the orb lands
- and heck their damage numbers aren’t even good either,
- as sustain damage it’s trash as their dps of 120/(1s chargeup + 0.25s wind down) = 96dps < bodyshotting mercy pistol of 100dps let alone comparing with other projectile dps weapon fires.
- as a burst weapon fire, well if it can’t reasonably be aimed in most ranges, what makes you think it can burst well?
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preeeetty sure the nerfs on turret slow, slow stack “bug fix”, turret dps, wall hp and wall duration simply are net nerfs no matter how you look at it from any perspective whether relative to anyone or not. like there’s no way you can look at those straight number decreases and then look at changes of another hero and say that sym ended up better.
- heck wall became more breakable to bap ult, bastion sentry and hog ult
- rein walks out of turrets easier esp after he got speed buffed while holding shield
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infinite tp nerf:
so when you take the above into account + the fact that current tp use cases are legit a subset of what it was used for before the infinite tp nerf, plus the objective fact that tp cast frequency and effective uptime all plummeted because of the 
cd mechanic it gave tp (see text art below on visualisation of how), clearly this is just worse at getting hero uptime no matter which hero you’re looking relatively from (unless you’re looking at this from the enemy perspective) all her tools to get uptime (tp and relying on team to escort her in and out of effective range) all got nerfed.
so yes, she is bad relative to the cast. she’s terrible at getting uptime relative to the rest of the cast, and even despite that she still ended up getting nerfed to being worse. even when taking into account what’s happening with balance for other heroes she is still worse than before. Yet poytheon in his “infinite wisdom” believes that is “fine” and “more viable than before”.
2 Likes
Sombra has both one of the lowest pickrates and one of the lowest winrates.
1 Like
I’m no high level player….but every single high level play I’ve seen (both OWL and streams) uses extensive comms and such….It might not be OWL level “I know my teammates like back of hand” all the time….but it is plenty (especially compared to where I play - which is zero comms)…communicating a teleport (for ex) doesn’t take rocket science
Honestly I think people scapegoat the hell out of the team “reliant” aspect of some heroes
She’s effectively applicable to less situations than most of the cast.*
There are plenty of people including myself who wouldn’t say shes “bad”, that’s your terminology.
If only you were capable of reading 
we probably agree on more than you think, but you prove time and time again you’re incapable of having a civil discussion & not putting words in others mouth. Sad really. I think you just like to argue again, as I said earlier, instead of putting words in peoples mouths… How about you ask what they’re stance is… Because clearly you’re confused on what I think
I think Symmetra is similar to Doomfist in that she is strong where she is strong and very weak where she is very weak.
Although you didn’t mention her strengths, I assume it’s because of the stance you are taking on this.
My own personal opinion as a Doomfist main is that we should have more heroes that are niche as I like hero diversity.
I think her being bad comparing her against other heroes on versatility and uptime whereas her strength (much like Doom) is close range burst potential esp when the enemy rely on shields and (much like Doom) she is completely ineffective outside of this niche.
Whether this is a good or bad thing depends on personal opinion rather than fact and I think this is the only thing you and Poytheon disagree on.
Any comp with symm is unfun. Its symm.
1 Like
Now I have seen it all. Looks like Sym’s next on the chopping block. Yes, let’s just nerf anything threatening the status quo. No need to overcome and adapt.
ah yes because sym’s uptime/job is entirely just putting down a tp, surely it doesn’t involve any damaging from her weapon fires or zoning with her turrets at all /s
if those “situations” hardly ever occur inherently because of the environment of the game, that clearly it’s a case of unreasonable expectations being held in balancing —> they are bad.
E.g. delete reaper’s mobility/nerf it to be as unavailable as infinite tp and he’ll be in the same situation as sym for uptime (i.e. highly dependent on team pockets for uptime), that simply “situational” or simply just being balanced to be bad? Clearly the latter.
And before you fail to understand why I bring this example up thinking it’s an unrelated tangent, it’s an example demonstrating how your argument is a fallacy.
The reciepts are there you know.
Clearly you acknowledge there being nerfs, but deny that the nerfs trashed her kit and instead claim that post nerfs she’s more viable than before. This further reinforced by the fact that you deny that infinite tp was a nerf despite that being the worst nerf she recieved that lowered her uptime.
You further proclaimed that despite how much vastly less independence sym has for her uptime, that you like her teamplay and also tried arguing that her level of dependence for uptime is acceptable. I.e. clearly claiming that she’s fine despite how much worse off she is compared to others and and despite her nerfs as shown in my earlier comparisons.
But sure. I’m the one with reading comprehension issues /s
1 Like
For what ever reason pros were not countering this comp as many would on ladder, As in Pharah/echo duo with a mercy in tow would normal destroy this style of comp.
But yet teams ran what they practiced into an off meta that exploits that kind of engagement.
If the top dps aren’t Tracer, Cree and Soldier then the game is in an unhealthy spot. No, I don’t want to play CoD.
1 Like
Are you intentionally provocative/difficult to speak with? It’s kinda ridiculous… 
This whole 
/s /s /s style of yours is a sign of your immaturity
You really need some lessons on how to speak with other people, because this is not the way pal.
This is your opinion. While you think Sym is bad, and likely think Brig/Sombra are bad for the same reasons of “most of ladder sucks at working together”, others don’t because they have teammates willing to work together. Sorry that you don’t. It’s not our fault that your teammates would rather play cluelessly and/or selfishly as if this isn’t a team game.
You would think you’d actually read what’s being said since it’s in writing, but instead you come up with ideas of your own of what other people are saying.
Yes, Sym has been nerfed. Her kit was not “trashed”, that’s your opinion. Infinite TP was not a straight nerf, that again is your opinion. You need to realize that your opinion is not fact. It’s no wonder your conversations go nowhere, you live in a bubble where you’re right about everything.
You definitely are Again and again you prove that you aren’t comprehending what other people are saying, and on top of that you put words in their mouth. Those are 2 telltale signs that you are having reading comprehension issues. You also clearly don’t understand what a discussion is, as assuming your opinions are facts will get you nowhere. You have 2 ears and 1 mouth, speak less and listen more, it may actually get you somewhere.
Again, after countless comments, instead of asking questions to understand other peoples perspective, you continue to go on tirades to satisfy your own personal ego. It seems you’re a lost cause at this point, as you’ve made zero efforts to correct your behavior… maybe eventually you’ll realize how poorly you act…
It’s very telling that you conveniently left out the last part of Happys comment where they said
Clearly you have no interest in finding common ground. You just like to argue
Because all her “strengths” have huge caveats that were covered before.
She can’t get soldier level dps without being hard enabled due to all the lows previously mentioned.
Turrets ate easily destroyed if not escaped from and it requires the target to walk past them unlike a weapon fire that you can just aim and force feed damage onto them.
Team tps or any other “utility” use tps are conditioned on having a tp cast to do which was nerfed hard as downtime spiked up while demand to repurpose or relocate increased with tank nerfs. Thus more dichotomous for tp usage and resulting in less independence for uptime.
Tp use cases legit at best remained the same.
What strenghs?
Except
- Sym legit doesn’t have much close range burst (since toy mention going agaunst shields, I’d like to point out her primary legit is sustain damage, not burst)
- doom can more independently get uptime regardless of his niche (unlike sym) and legit he doesn’t have as narrow of a niche as sym does, i.e. a false equivalency
And a hero who’s balanced or designed to be incapable of getting decent uptime for themselves in a game environment such as OW’s and when most other heroes are being balanced and designed to be able to, this is factually a problem, i.e. they factually are worse.
As explained earlier:
i can see tracer but mccree and soldier lol, they are COD. soldier especially you have average cod archetype with an assault rifle, underbarrel grenade launcher thats way better than most fps’s, strong sustain fire and even has the ability to run away very fast and heal himself.
mccree is as basic you can get for an fps point and click, dude has a stun and burst fire to kill anything in front of him. hes better than COD
So Sym has no strengths?
I’m trying with you but I struggle when people make statements like these.
The distinction is immaterial once she reaches the highest level of her beam. She does extremely high damage in a short period of time. Just like Ana’s healing isn’t instant but considered burst
If Symm doesn’t have as narrow a niche as Doom, why is she picked more in the highest levels of play? Does that mean she is stronger in the niche?
I am listening and understanding your arguments but I have a hard time when you start to take design choices and paint them as objective facts.
1 Like
I would recommend not engaging. I have had zero discussions with Zephirin where they’re reasonable. They speak in extremes, spam emojis and /s, and make zero effort to find common ground. They’re just here to argue with you.
wish you the best of luck Happy.