This has to be said

General Discussion
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To everyone whining about tank and support nerfs. This is coming from someone who plays and enjoys all 3 roles, the nerfs are necessary! You need to stop spreading the asinine notion that the DPS are after your or you aren’t meant to have fun.

Playing one role very likely makes you blind to the changes that needs to be made to make the game better overall. You have these power fantasies that are completely illogical and makes for garbage balance. Tanks wanting to be unkillable juggernauts and healers who want to literally heal stupid and incompetence.

The main reason many tank players struggle is very simple, the majority of tank players don’t actually know how to play tank. You never bothered to learn what good positioning is, what pathing is and how to kite, when to press W and when to back out. How to be an ingame leader and call for combos and engages.
The majority of tanks literally just stand in the open until they die, then scream at the healers for not healing them even though they actually dumped every ressource into them.

Tanking isn’t fun anymore! Of course, if you actually started to think about how you play and how you should play rather than wanting your power fantasy to become a reality you’d enjoy playing it. The fun should come from trying to understand and master the role.

And healers, you job isn’t to be able to save every incompetent person on your team, you are there to provide sustain, not make people unkillable. If people who are about to die don’t break line of sight when you start healing them, and then die as a result. They have to die for it.
You have to read the game and choose who to invest your ressources in, in every team fight. What’s the win condition and how needs the ressources to allow them to carry it out?

It’s these kinds of things that makes for a good OW player and what being big brain actually is, so many people who think just playing a “game sense” hero makes them smart, it doesn’t. You need that on every hero to be effective.

Learn to play the game and your role

Imagine if you instead of spending so many hours on the forums spent some of it on watching the educational content out there, there is so much good content that would help you improve your own gameplay and also understand the game at higher level. If everyone did that and worked at getting better, imagine how good the average player would be compared to now.

EDIT
There are some damage heroes that needs to be nerfed as well for everyone wondering why I didn’t incluede them. Damage is also the most straight forward role which is why I didn’t talk much about them.

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That is true, many many people spam “I need healing” in this case and they think that you healing them will enable them to overstay.
What a delusion.

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I dont want to be juggernaut, i want to be able to survive as long as i could before. Not like, i make two steps foward with shield, and im alredy dieing just to be told by team that i dont walk foward.
How can i walk foward if no one taking any focus off me, and my shield is breaking way faster now/ im getting slammed by doom and nobody care :confused:

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That’s not necessarily you doing something wrong, that could be your teammates as well, but what would the game be like if you could do your job even though the rest of the team didn’t do theirs?

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Nothing to add. This man knows what’s up and speaks the truth.

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Welp, i would at least be able to block some dmg and be my team shield like i used to. Now best rein strategy there is is to “charge them as fast as i can and kill something myself”. That, dont seem like a job i supposed to do. I know i supposed to also look for kills, but when “shield tank” start to getting way more reward from “suicide gameplay” than defending his team, i feel its becoming little wrong. Im not helping my team get to the fight, im now have to force myself into it hoping im gona kill them before they kill me.

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After Sigma’s release that’s where we are heading to, it’s not enough to have a shield and block damage for your team in a passive way, you gotta look up for killing as well.

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yea and this is why sigma orisa had so high synergy, because they could do shielding and dmg at once brining bouth dmg and protection.

But i feel like being rein lost a lot of its brain and magic, and lead to more people just blindly play him worse and worse.

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I agree with the post overall but have some nitpicks.

I’d actually argue that obsessing about the role is how these delusions of being underpowered and persecuted by DPS come into being. You don’t really begin to understand the game until you look beyond the role to the team level perspective. There, roles only matter because 2/2/2, and that some things that you need are only found in sufficient quantity within a singular role. The team’s needs don’t particularly care what role everyone is in.

Sustain still implies that being bad at making people unkillable is all there is to it. Supports enable aggression. Everything else is a side effect. You only need enough healing to kill the other team, but it’s because you should also be actively helping in that regard.

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It’s less not knowing how to play Tank, than it is forcing tanks to rely more on their DPS, despite outside of like… Diamond/ Masters you’re not going to be getting the DPS support you require

Playing Orisa/ Sigma gave you at least SOME room to have the freedom of combat, or being more self reliant

With both of them being pretty much hard throws now, Reinhardt is the last really decent option, and because of how his kit works, you’ll need plenty of support from both the DPS and the Supports to get by

DPS in QP and lower ranks don’t know how to focus fire properly; and sure that’s a rank thing, but it takes so much agency away from most tank players.

It’s the same issue with OWL; they’re playing a totally different game from what happens on Ladder

And on Ladder, what happens in Diamond upwards is totally different from what happens below.

Reinhardt is super fun and fast paced when I play him in my higher ranked games; when I hop on QP for a bit of messing around, it can be a totally different nightmare with the random selection of player ranks I get, where when I see a map like Hanamura, I have to pray and hope that I have DPS players who match

It also doesn’t help that Sigma and Orisa were overnerfed so much that they’ve become pretty much unplayable, and with all the burst damage buffs in the game and the more common/ meta DPS, Winston isn’t playable either, the selection of playable Tank heroes is so small

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Right, except when Rein/D.VA are literally the only viable pick tanks because the others have gotten nerfed into the dirt, it becomes mundane when you play the same hero over and over and over again. And when you go outside of this cycle, you get people who scream at you for not playing that hero and often get reported.

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Reinhardt and Mercy are binary characters. Being binary became obsolete in OW for individual agency purposes.

Rein seems to be facing now what Mercy faced in the past about being meta, because of their binary input, once healing or shielding = no dealing damage, they were left the strongest healer / tank because it’s all their kit do.
I can see Rein getting Mercy’s treatment to leave the meta now.

Rein only works when the team around him is good, he’s too much team enabler and team reliant at the same time.

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I understand your point. What I meant by mastering a role was understanding how to impact other roles and how they impact your own as well, but didn’t say it. I don’t think it’s possible to master a role without also knowing how the other roles should play.

I agree.

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I could not agree more. I do not want to be rude, but these attitudes halted the growth of tank and support players so much because while supports were busy pocketing tanks that had no clue how to push, dps had to adapt how to play the game with virtually no help. Result? Yes, we are way better at the game and can dominate lobbies of our rank. Pro tip, if you stop playing like a jackanape, we all of a sudden cannot punish you.

For the most part. All the tank and support nerfs are making it a lot better for when the people playing those roles actually know what they are doing are no longer controlling every engagement.

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Yes. Yes. Yes. and Yes again.

This cannot be stressed enough.

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Nothing about DPS? says a lot about this topic.

So what I gather is:

tank & support = Bad and should be nerfed to the ground
dps = Godlike and untouchable

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The damage role is the easiest to understand and there are still damage heroes that needs to be nerfed.

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This very much. It’s a damaging misconception that supports are supposed to be able to keep their team up through sustained damage all the time. It’s everyone’s job to minimize the amount of unnecessary damage they take. Supports aren’t supposed to be able to keep horribly-out-of-position people alive just through healing output. Arguing in favor of healing buffs to make that happen would wreck the game completely.

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I think that’s what so many people want for this game since it’s possible in most other FPS games. They want to be able to 1v4 as long as they make their shots and then blame the game’s design when they can’t. Overwatch doesn’t need to be just another FPS.

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As someone who also plays all 3 roles, I disagree. Or, more specifically, I think that certain Tanks and Supports have been nerfed too much, while most of the DPS class has been left untouched or has only gotten a slap on the wrist, in comparison.

Also, for the record, you might want to pay attention on how you word your OP.

Up until this comment (which you added in, multiple replies later):

I got a vibe from you, similar to this:

It might be best to include your DPS comment, in your OP, Avian. As, without it, you come off very:

“Tank and Support bad, need nerfs. DPS great, as is. You just need to learn the play the game better, Tank and Support players.”

And I don’t think that’s quite the vibe you want to give off.

Just food for thought, mate. All I’m saying.

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