So playing widow on a good map for her usually has good results? Isn’t that really common sense?
3 Likes
Things I’d change about Widow:
- Have Soldier canonically kill her
- Delete her because she is dead
8 Likes
Yes, except the thing with Widow is that the she’s a sniper, and snipers in video games are kept in check by the map design.
At their core, snipers are overpowered unless they are saddled with major drawbacks. This is not the case with Widow, she has relatively few upsides but no real downsides. Map design is mostly what keeps her in check because it lets mobile characters reach her with low threat and lets barrier tanks help their team contest her while also allowing time to recharge around a corner.
Havana and Junkertown don’t keep Widow in check, they have absolutely obscene sightlines that prevent a lot of strategies from working against her. On those maps you are forced to beat her either by countersniping or by beating her team at a major positional disadvantage so that she can’t stop your team. There is not readonable counterplay to Widow on the couple of maps that don’t accommodate the character type properly.
Having longer sightlines is fine but your map shouldn’t just be long hallways if you don’t want snipers to take over them.
4 Likes
Widow’s smg is useless in 95% of circumstances.
Her scope has enough zoom that it’s rather difficult to hit something at close range with it.
Her ult is hanzo’s ability but ends if she dies prematurely.
So then address the issue with the map(s) and not the character.
No good everyone screaming for widow nerfs if it isn’t even widow herself that’s the issue.
1 Like
And how exactly do you propose they fix Junkertown’s first point? It’s a big open field, you can’t exactly change that for Widow and not have it be basically a completely different map
Also changing the maps is a lot more work than just adding half a second of charge time. Give her some more ammo to compensate so that her SMG is more reliable.
1 Like
Keep the oneshot, but cut the range. At least.
I feel the same way but it’s not up to me unfortunately. It’s up to the devs and I think a future nerf will probably be falloff range/damage since the problem is long site-line maps
We shall see tho hehe. This constant complaining reminds me about a cowboy dude back then. A witch hunt
There is ways it can be changed. Rather than just giving up at the first hurdle.
- First point could start inside the main door to JT instead of pushing the payload to the gates.
- Larger / more frequent structures could be added outside as an alternative.
I’m no map maker but I can certainly visualize concepts of how first point could be improved.
So stop the sniper being a sniper … Got it! 
Also
- Changing base damage from 120 - 125 will do absolutely nothing.
- losing 0.5x crit modifier is huge and will make her F tier immediately even without the ridiculous 60% damage fall off at 40m
- Speaking of fall off, 60% damage drop off at 40m - 50m is absolutely utterly insane. Especially for a hero designed to be played at range.
I’ll eat my hat if bliz ever add damage fall off for widow.
2 Likes
The only change Widowmaker needs is the same thing Roadhog needs.
Bring back 6v6.
These heroes were designed to pick off an enemy. Barriers countered that. Getting a pick on 5v5 way different resulting in a faster steam roll of 4 v 5 than 5 v 6.
Old map design and trying to rework Sombra, Roadhog, Mei and more is the path of stubbornness.
The easiest solution is go back to what worked for years.
They won’t so pull out some popcorn to enjoy the show of fail after consecutive re-work/nerf patch fail.
6 Likes
True but you never know, they may take the sojourn way and compensate buff her strongly. Like falloff range but a lot more ammo 
I’d be perfectly fine with putting similar restrictions on Widow that other modern FPS games feature with their Sniper weapons.
Here’s like 8 paragraphs explaining how flawed OW2 Sniper design is compared to pretty much any other modern FPS game in existence.
So make her a female soldier 76…
I’d absolutely welcome projectile / bullet drop. But they’d never add it I don’t think. They’d have to compensate widow in some way for turning hitscan into projectile.
1 Like
Heh, that’s nothing.
- COD/Battlefield have severe damage reduction at range, with extremely bright “Scope Glint”. BattleField even has Reverse damage dropoff at closer ranges.
- Apex, bullet drop, but also you can’t oneshot with the Kraber unless it’s damage boosted with a large stationary deployable
- TF2, the Sniper is extremely squishy with basically no escape when rushed at close range. And a Spy with a Deadringer, Spycicle, and either Enforcer/Diamondback/Ambassador just gets free kills on them.
- Halo, just shooting even 1 point of damage descopes a Sniper, and they get 8 total bullets, with generally shorter ranged maps. Not to mention extremely bright “Scope Glint”. And otherwise just avoid maps you don’t like.
- CS/Valorant, it’s extremely risky to buy sniper rifles for Econ reasons, and otherwise there’s just a ton of smokes/flashes, and the vast majority of the level design is shorter ranges. And otherwise 2 bullets from an Assault Rifle or even 1 Deagle shot is enough to counter right back.
You wanna talk ACTUAL enjoyable counterplay, that goes beyond “Snipe them back”, then let’s go.
She’s the 4th most used DPS hero in the game right now out of 17 total DPS heroes. I’d say that’s plenty of pickrate to burn.
The only change she needs imo is a falloff nerf so she doesn’t snipe you from across the map. Other than that, pocketing in general should be nerfed into obscurity. Possibly a 15 second grapple too if that’s not enough.
Starting at the gate? Why would you even say that? Just cut out half the map, easy!
You can’t really nerf pocketing, and Mercy’s healing isn’t exactly insurmountable anyway while damage boost also isn’t exactly doing a lot.
Turning a one shot into a one shot is a pretty suboptimal use of resources I’d say
Mercy unironically is the least problematic when it comes to pocketing. Pocketing wouldn’t be a problem if the game were like it was originally designed: With her as the highest single target healing in the game and no other support ever going higher than 55 hps
I agree with OP, I don’t think she is what needs changing, and should be left as is.
However, I had a thought the other day I’ve been sitting on.
If you’ve ever been to the range and actually shot at long range targets, you can hear the distance between you and the target. You fire, and a second later hear the slight pop sound when you hit the board.
That got me thinking about what it would be like if you merely changed her shots from hitscan to projectile. No change to damage or charge time, or anything else. Just a fast projectile, but with a satisfying sound on hit registering. Make her have to lead her targets a little bit, and see what that does to Widow overall. Make her shots feel like a sniper irl kinda thing.
Not saying it’s a good or bad idea, just trying to imagine what it’d be like, how it would work. A ‘what if’ scenario.
1 Like
No. We can’t. You don’t seem to have a grasp on the issues.
But then you stopped playing forever after your last tantrum if I remember correctly. Not sure why I’d listen to you about balance.
So the sniper can’t snipe … right.
Right … because the map totally wouldn’t be changed in any way within junkertown itself to accomodate the forward first spawn. 
I feel like I lose IQ reading some of these comments sometimes…
Don’t I? So far the only argument I’ve seen is that she’s broken on junkertown and havana. I say again it sounds like a map issue to me and not a character issue.
I’d love for you to quote me where I said that. I’ve been playing maybe every other day for an hour or so. But go ahead and believe I’ve quit the game if it makes you feel any better.