He is one of those characters in a game that can’t be nerfed significantly without a comparable buff, or a buff that makes sense. For example, the people who want him to have reverse damage fall off like Sigma’s boulder used to have. If you want the hybrid sniper, who most players on average hit 25-30% of their shots and 8-11% crits to stay at med-long range for maximum effectiveness, you’d need to buff the projectile speed enough to be consistent at those ranges. There’s only so much they can take before he becomes as bad as Sha Lin from Paladins or he becomes a worse Ashe or Cassidy.
Reduce arrow hit box. Every time in the past they did this, the speed got buffed by as much if not more. A net buff every time.
Reduce spam (several consider his weapon to be spam). His sniper playstyle gets buffed, meaning faster arrows and more damage.
Reduce/ remove crit multiplier, some say for him as a whole while others just want it on his weapon. If he can’t OHK, his arrows could very well become bigger because that was the exact reason why they kept getting smaller. This will mean his mobility as well as his spam/ duelist playstyle gets buffed.
3A. If simply reducing the multiplier on his bow, the lowest they could possibly go is to reduce the damage to 175 if only to counter Widow, and since they nerfed him multiple times in ways that only affect him against 1-2 characters (nerfed Storm specifically for Tracer, nerfed regular damage specifically for 250 hp, which we only have 2 of), guess who’s getting faster and/ or bigger arrows?
3B. If losing the crit multiplier, what does he get for losing half his base damage? If applied to Storm, that’s another 325 damage. The arrow during his ult and Sonic if you count those total to another 240. That’s 445, technically 685 lost. He will have lost more than Doomfist in his rework. What does he get in exchange that doesn’t reduce him to being a worse Cassidy at best?
Reverse fall off, already stated above.
Actual damage fall off, spam/ duelist gets buffed if the sniper is being forced to stay at close-med ranges.
“Reduce the randomness of his shots and make him require actual aim”. This can only be done by a speed and/ or size increase.
No matter what, you’re not going to be satisfied because either he’ll be butchered into a throw pick or become more of a menace than you thought he was already.
Said this numerous times already. Anything they nerf, will come with compensation buffs that will make even more annoying to these people. He had faster arrows for a bit and he became a sniper again, but they reverted it. Would be nice to have that back at least.
One shot characters will always be controvertial in a game about counterpicking or at least giving people the delusion of being able to fight back.
Your ability to fight back against a sniper is either
Having enough HP where they can’t 1 shot you.
Hoping they just keep missing.
And that’s basically going to please no one, so I suggest we rip the band aid off, and remove snipers entirely, keep one shots to ults or damage boosts because at least then it’d require the power of teamwork.
It’s a team based game. People have been hiding and waiting for someone else to do something since the game (and Widow) were introduced. It’s what snipers do. Keep track of them and throw up a sig shield. It’s mindless really how easily snipers can be shut down.
I’m for removing 1 taps on both snipers, but then they would need reworks.
This “I’m stuck behind cover” thing is an old question with old answers. Watch a coaching video or duo with a tank friend.
I really wish people would move away from this mindset. If a character is too strong, it’s okay to nerf them and not give them something to compensate. They don’t need compensation, they need to be less powerful, hence the need for a nerf in the first place.
He still has a very good kit even without landing headshots.
I’m happy where Hanzo is currently. Although I’m all for nerfing the 1 shot and replacing it with increased arrow speed. Will make his damage more consistent. Mei’s icicle is faster than Hanzo’s arrow.
Since Hanzo is meant to be the mid-range sniper they could impose a damage fall-off on his character. They have already established a damage fall off on orisa, roadhog, and doomfist projectiles. Its not out of precedent.
I’m not sure what his fall off would be, but they could match it to Widows possibly. If there ever was another consistency nerf to Widowmaker it would be to buff her base kit, give her a projectile sniper round rather than hitscan. Remove hitscan and Widow is perfect for her identity.
Cull back Hanzo damage at range for 1shot potential let him be the closer range 1shot expert.
why are you operating under the assumption he needs to get buffs to make up for nerfs?
why can’t all characters be so “bad” you need to work to get something done? instead of just logging in and collecting team wipes with your screen turned off
He’s not too strong though, so he doesn’t need any nerfs. Yes, if a character is clearly overpowered like OG Hog, nerf them, but everything people keep saying Hanzo needs would require a buff. It’s not the same as say reducing Cassidy’s or S76 damage by 1-2 or the range by as much, it would make almost no difference. Hanzo however, as listed with all the usual suggestions, those are what he would need to stay viable.
I already answered that while listing the usual suggestions, or do you mean to tell me he’d be perfectly fine with no buffs to help losing the crit multiplier for example? There’s only so much they can take before they have to start giving back, and even if he doesn’t NEED the buffs, they only make sense given the playstyle archers usually have combined with Blizzard’s history. Keeping in mind the average accuracy of Hanzo players:
How do you justify reducing the hit box and not increasing the speed like they did every time in the past?
How do you justify taking away more damage from a sniper than a dps-turned-tank and not buff or rework them?
How do you justify removing the incentive/ reward for precision on a sniper?
How do you justify forcing the sniper to stay at med-long range by making them weaker at close range, but not increasing their consistency to better counter a single character when the sniper in question has been nerfed multiple times in the past specifically for or in ways that only reduced their effectiveness against 1-2 characters at a time (Tracer, Reaper, Mei)?
How do you justify forcing the sniper to stay at close-med range, but not make them better suited for it?
Trust me, if Hanzo was as easy as you or half the people complaining about him described, 30 hours on him out of the +300 total I have since OW1 launch (2nd most played across the board) while flexing multiple other characters would be more than enough to climb up to Masters if I ever cared enough to do more than placements.
I’m willing to try anything, but I don’t need to be GM to tell if a character is too strong or weak within any specific ranks.
Disclaimer: I’m not as bothered about Hanzo as I am Widow, so I’m not going to push this idea, just throwing it out there.
We saw Widow with a DoT. Maybe they could give Hanzo that on primary fire? The idea being that there’s a small window of time to save yourself or others from a Hanzo headshot. There would be more counterplay but Hanzo would still be dangerous.
At what point in time did I say much less imply I believed either of these? Why would I want my second most played removed? I’ve only pointed out the changes that would most likely come as a result of the nerfs people keep saying should happen based on logic and Blizzard’s history with Hanzo. If anyone has an idea that:
Does not make head shots pointless
Does not/ would not result in him becoming a worse projectile version of Cassidy or Ashe
Does not make an already hard to efficiently use character even harder to use (average accuracy)
Does not practically neuter him damage-wise
Or force him to stay within certain ranges where he is/ should be weakest or most vulnerable for maximum effectiveness
All I did was list most of how people keep saying he should be nerfed, explain the highly likely buffs he would get, and point out they wouldn’t be satisfied with any of them.
I never said this much less implied it. I said there’s not much they can do and listed how each change would most likely backfire on the people complaining.
You completely missed the points that were being made, latched on to a single line, completely twisted everything I said and more, and you insult my intelligence? What kind of mental gymnastics did you have to go through to come up with an interpretation and response like that?
a lower headshot multiplier would still reward headshots.
he still has higher mobility than either ashe or cass
a lower headshot multiplier would simply mean you have to pick targets that have already taken damage. This actually encourages a more skillful, rewarding playstyle.
having to constantly play behind a wall just doesn’t sound fun dog. I play DF mainly so using cover and playing corners just comes with the gig, as well as being able to tank damage, but for the rest of the roster that isn’t a tank and can be one shot, that sounds incredibly boring.
But you just said to make it to require dmg boost to one shot because then it requires team work, but he said to dive which is teamwork and u don’t like it? ummmm