Game Devs have done an excellent job at narrowing the tank swap counters.
Unless they have an exceptional team where the healer is literally sitting behind the tank, that is when tank counters happens.
Even Alec said, it is not only the tanks job to swap and counter. The healers and dps can do that as well.
Zarya cannot counter Mauga just cause she has bubble.
All those crying tank counter, this and that. That is only for high level game play. Where the Pro’s are so good, that why would they waste their resources when they can try at countering and setting up plays.
This is exactly why I like 5v5, unlike 6v6- Where you cannot play Dva into Zarya back in 2016. it was just impossible.
Saying this when 5v5 has objectively made the counterswapping problem worse and literally everyone knows it because it’s been one of, if not THE biggest complaint especially from tank players lol.
Definitely a take of all time.
Also saying this like there don’t be GM dva one tricks on this very site constantly still complaining about the zarya / dva interaction LMAO brotha what are you yapping about?
Countering issues haven’t changed since we moved to 5v5; it just feels like there’s more tank countering because there’s only one of them. It has always been the whole team’s job to swap to counter as necessary.
The whole team can also swap to prevent a counter. For example, Zarya doesn’t get to freely counter DVa if DVa’s team swaps to Bastion to keep Zarya in check. Mauga doesn’t get to freely counter Rein if Rein’s supports swap to Ana and Zen to counter Mauga.
The number of tank players hasn’t changed the team’s responsibility to swap.
Yes… that means the countering issue HAS changed. Because instead of those abilities being distributed much better because of two tanks, it is now the one tank being the sole recipient of pretty much everything.
Counterswapping is 100% a bigger problem in 5v5, than it was in 6v6.
Your team countering doesn’t change the fact that it still objectively feels worse to play into, as a solo tank.
but it is not though ? My point is - tanks swaps should not be heavily reliant on the tank alone.
A dps or heals can do the same job and play the game. For eg this game : all the heals needed to do was either go zen and put discord on Orissa or dps needed to tunnel vision the Kiri - but now since they do not want to do that.
I have to go Zarya into Orissa. I could easily tank her as Mauga into Orissa. If we dealt with the cleanse or Discord the Orissa.
That is skill issue. Game devs are not going to spell it out for us.
Most who say 5v5 is unbalanced have actually not seen what unbalance is.
5v5 single tank comps have become too one-dimensional for my tastes and are pretty easy to counter (Mauga or Hog vs. Ana anyone?). 5v5 open queue with two tanks feels a lot closer to how OW1 intended game play synergies, like giving Mauga / Hog more cleanse options (Zarya, Kiriko, and LW).
Yes, they’ve always been able to do that. Hence why losing one of the people who could take that pressure off of you, especially someone with as much of a demanding presense as a 2nd tank makes the counterswapping issue OBJECTIVELY worse.
Agree about abilities not being distributed between two tanks, but I don’t think that’s an issue.
5v5 feels better to me on tank, because now every tank hero has the power to play into more situations without relying on their tank partner. Now I can pick whatever tank I want and will usually only need to swap based on what the enemy team does. Before, my pick was beholden to what my tank partner picked. There needed to be good synergy between the picks or you were almost guaranteed to get wrecked by any average team comp.
In 5v5, I’m in charge, and my minions are there to support me.
Quite the opposite. At the highest level the team can come together and provide a comp to work around the tank. At lower ranks the tank is generally on their own and if they face off against easy counters then they don’t get support from the team.
Try playing hog or mauga into Ana at lower ranks and see if your supports swap to counter the enemy tank or to support you by going kiri. Not happening. Yet the Ana knows enough to nade hog when he does breather or mauga when he does shout.
It depends on whether you think a player picking a hero they enjoy over constantly swapping for counters is a game design issue or a player issue?
Personally I think players should be able to play their favourite heroes and have a reasonable chance to win against other players of similar skill. Some matchups make that very unlikely requiring swapping or losing.
If swapping is a core part of the game then it can be argued that the problem is the player wanting to enjoy their heroes and not play heroes they don’t like just because they’re countered.
I don’t think there’s a right answer. It depends on how you want to play the game vs. how the game requires you to play currently if you want to win. I imagine in 6v6 there is less tank hard-countering though and that it became more of a problem when changing to 5v5. Which would imply it’s a game/format problem.
That’s the problem. Most people who like to tank, hate life when playing the tank role. That’s literally how the entire 6v6 vs 5v5 discussion even started.
It was tank players that started it because they got the worst out of the format change.
