I feel like the Community ( well the part of the community that parrots what streamers/OWL pros say) is once again gaslighting Support players. Let’s get into some disingenuous arguments being made:
“MuH PoSITIoniNG” our positioning isn’t the problem - the fact that there’s at least 10 heroes who can negate almost any positional advantage you take and dive you/flank - you renders this point nowhere near as important as the issue is with current support kit design. Guess that’s why Lucio and Moira are dominant picks because they get to reposition frequently and can move the fight to deal with the heroes who can move all over the map and can get to anywhere your precious “PuHSIshUning” could get you.
“Hugging corners/Wall” really now? Other than Ana and random potshots from Zen, that doesn’t really do what yall think for the other support heroes . I mean it’s not like we have plenty of long/mid range hit scan heroes who do enough damage to actually make that viable in the support roster….lol. ( In case you wanted to know DPS has 8 heroes who this actually benefits) Oh and the games that allow this all have characters or kits designed for it and do enough damage to make it viable . Y’all really think we’re going to be out here corner peeking with Mercy, Lucio, Baptiste, Moira, Brig getting picks?
“Bad habits” - you mean making sure the character who brings the most presence on the field is able to push us forward in an objective based game? You mean trying to enable DPS when possible? You mean do what our original kit design was intended to do? We didn’t design that, Blizzard did. Now they are asking us to take these same characters and play mostly team deathmatch with secondary objective concerns, sure most of us are down, but that is too tall an ask for the way supports are currently designed. They clearly need to redesign the supports the way they intend 5v5 to flow. That ain’t our fault we don’t find the current experience enjoyable, I mean, if it’s so easy, so fixable you guys could always queue support, maybe win a few games, come tell us how we are wrong, and then go back to your 10
Minute queues trying to play the role you enjoy …
What people fail to realize is that it’s the support players job to heal while also fending off attackers and must also provide utility to the team. Support players would have a much easier time if they didn’t have so much responsibility.
The most vocal of Competitive Players who say such things are without a doubt the most arrogant, condescending, yet completely ignorant members of the community.
They think they know better than everyone, including the developers themselves, despite the fact that they don’t even play as most of the Heroes they say that players of should; get good, learn better positioning, or accuse of having bad habits because they are “off meta” or “off heroes” who don’t fit into their insipid, stagnant, cookie-cutter strategies.
Meanwhile, who is the first to whine as soon as Blizzard introduces a new Hero which breaks their precious little meta? Apparently it’s the very same strategic geniuses who presume to tell everyone else what to do and how to play the game, when evidently they cannot even adapt to a new Hero which changes up gameplay and need to go running to Blizzard begging them to make the game easier for them by nerfing the Hero to the point that they can deal with them without too much effort or thought put into it.
I’m not impressed by their simplistic pattern play, hold their opinions of balance in particularly low regard, and have no respect for pretentious little men with silly haircuts who parade around in front of the camera or try to act tough up until they inevitably end up cut loose after some scandal comes to light which reveals just what sort of moral character the average person with such excessive pride and ego often possesses.
I don’t know where the devs are getting their opinions of balance from. But if it’s from OWL players, they need to find an OWL pro who is a flex player rather than someone who only one tricks one DPS hero (if that’s a thing).
The fact that it took this long to nerf tracer speaks volumes as to how biased they are when it comes to balancing. Even ana should’ve been nerfed long time ago. Or reworked at least, so that her sleep dart/nade isn’t as oppressive to tanks. There’s just too many heroes that are clearly over-powered and in need of a nerf.
I do not even know why such an us versus them exists. I get it in Dead by Daylight. You are playing an entirely different game, killers to survivors. But this is a different role. We are still playing Overwatch. Life for a support is not THAT different than what tanks or dps go through.
The competitive community absolutely knows better than the developers. Have you been around for the past five years of awful balance changes? Are you aware that Brigitte – essentially a response to forum whining about dive – spawned a year-long meta with no damage heroes? Oh, and I play Ana, a low mobility, low damage support.
Plattrash support players when they’re threatened whatsoever?
it’s not just a “thought” when statistics point towards them rising above the casual community, how many bronze to gm runs do you need to watch in order to understand that their mechanics are only about 10% of the reason why they climb so easily?
more importantly is that devs agree with them most of the time much more so than with the so called community, the game they want is closer to how high rank plays, so don’t be going around thinking that devs don’t understand the game just as much as pros do, it’s just that they can’t tell you how wrong you’re about it because it’s not in their interest
the community built this idea around overwatch that became impossible to support anymore and now that the cat is out of the bag we have people like OP here trying to defend the mess that OW1 is while trying to justify their terribly spoiled habits
In that case, why have the tanks always sucked to play compared to DPS or supports in OW1? If the competitive community knows better, surely the tanks would’ve got the reworks that they desperately needed long time ago.
To me, the competitive community are overly focused on balance, even at the expense of making the role less fun.
Dude, what? Were you around for triple tank? How about GOATS – that lasted a whole year or more, and no damage heroes were even played then. After that, the meta was again dominated by tanks, with double shield, and that combination has been (mostly) on and off since roll lock was added.
The fun and enjoyment from a competitive video game should be competition. Balance is a tool to make the competition more interesting, not less, such that feelings are coddled.
because they couldn’t buff tanks to an acceptable level, having 2 balls of stats running around would warp the game for every role into an spiraling unending mess, more tankyness means more dmg is required and more dmg means more healing is required while more healing means more tankyness is required
5v5 was the solution blizzard came up with and even pros didn’t foresee it but it worked beautifully
what pros wanted was for healing to be less in order for tanks to feel more impactful hence why you think they’re against “your” role, all they wanted was to make the wheel turn in the other direction but blizz broke the wheel and made a new one
I’m not talking about GOATS which was more of an issue with lack of role queue than anything else. Even now, GOATS will still be a thing if role queue didn’t exist anyways. Tanks are and have always been strong with their larger health pool, so of course triple tank will inevitably get picked.
What I’m saying is that there’s a way to balance the game in a way that it doesn’t ruin the enjoyment of the role. IMO they failed to do that for tanks in OW1.
Not sure what this is in reference to. I never complained about healing nerfs in OW1 as a matter of fact. All I’m saying is that we should be more careful when listening to pros as they might also be biased.
Having more agency over what happens in the game means more enjoyment for me. I don’t need anyone but myself to make support enjoyable, and neither do you.
Pro balance ideas consists of making their main better than every body else.
The devs agree with them because they need Esports to be profitable so they have jobs and big bonuses, let’s not pretend like this is anything other than money based.
My point is that current support design doesn’t support the game flow tbey and by extension you, want. Hence no one playing and the hype dying down.
I’d like you to point to one single balance decision that was made with the approval of professional players. Do you think they wanted roll lock? How about the awful stint that was hero bans?
How about some balance changes they asked for: the removal of immortality field and resurrect? Didn’t happen. Reworks to Orisa and Sigma such that double shield was either terrible or impossible? Didn’t happen. A mobility based dive meta? Didn’t happen.
Seriously, what in your eyes did the competitive scene ruin for you for this game’s balance?
Support players have a hard time admitting they got hard carried. It’s understandable. I played mostly support in OW1 and I know for a fact I got carried all the time - but that also meant I didn’t have much agency or direct impact. OW2 changed all of that.
I honestly don’t disagree with this but the way it’s being conveyed is far too dramatic, supports need changes, not necessarily buffs but useability changes, yes, however, even with changes you and every support player will need to adapt to a new format, they won’t buff supports so that you can stand in the open on your own or so that you can fight 1v5, they’ll give you a fair chance where you can express your skill and knowledge about the game and that’s it
it’s up to every support player to understand how 5v5 flows even after the promised changes
That’s why I said this, quote: “I don’t know where the devs are getting their opinions of balance from. But if it’s from OWL players…”
If this isnt’ true, then I guess this whole discussion is irrelevent to me. Move on…
That’s not what hard carried means. If you’re being hard carried, it means your team can still win the game even if you just go AFK. I think what you meant to say is that support players lacked solo carry potential in OW1, but then again even that isn’t true since you did have solo carry potential as support in OW1 especially if you were playing baptiste or zenyatta.
