The upcoming D.va nerfs are not enough imo

[nfcnorth-1711]

@Morningstar-12853

Results are the most important thing when looking at how strong something is, i’m sorry, it isnt when choosing how to balance it, but it definetly is when looking at what needs it.

Metas have ALWAYS been dictated by tanks/supps, they still are, what dictates a “Dive comp” if not a Winston or a D.va.

Ok let me put it this way. The way you are looking at the data is so narrow minded (and I actually litterally mean narrow here as you are looking at the actual most filtered data and not considering the filters which matter alot more) and not looking at the stuff that caused the data to end up as it is as the moment. Looking at what tou are advocating is what results in the bad whack a mole balance this game is famous for.

And no dive is a teamstyle not a tank thing. Dps are way more involded in balance stuff than you are giving them credit for

[Morningstar-12853]

I am looking at it, i never said DPS are not important, i only ever said Tanks are the most important (atm) with supports at close second.

I’ve followed this game since the very first open beta, again, hit GM a few times, playing Flex, i am looking at a alot of angles, believe me.

Dive is a tank inspired teamstyle, yes, proof is simply that its defined by Winston and D.va (or less used Zarya on ow1) with the dps/supp being pretty open, you never saw a Rein dive now did u?

[Alyenor-21688]

@Morningstar-12853

Exactly, balancing for the GOLD tier, almost killed their game, you just agreed with me.

Ah yes, Gold, famously high tier.
No, Brig wasn’t created for Gold players, she was meant to give Tracer a hard counter and to break the Dive comp, which, again, didn’t really exist in Gold.

@Morningstar-12853

Wow, the second most dumb change in the game, leaving Mercy in a limbo for ever since, went well, yep.

She did become useful in higher tiers. And everywhere else. And made other supports look bad.
So yeah, that went well.

@Morningstar-12853

Simply putting a simple pickrate across all ranks proves NOTHING.

Except they only gave non-mirrored winrates. That’s where D.Va is 4th.

[Lumin-1385]

@Morningstar-12853

ecause i believe tanks are OP in general

This is your bias talking though. Tanks aren’t OP in general. I think that you are still expecting tanks to be much closer in power level to OW1 tanks than they need to be in OW2. If tanks are globally nerfed, it would be bad for the game. They need to be this strong for 5 v 5 to work. Otherwise we might as well go back to 6 v 6. And personally, I’m enjoying 5 v 5.

[Pearl-11865]

the nerfs to DVa arent needed to begin with

[Akary-1113]

@Morningstar-12853

@AndyB-11735

D.va

• Fusion Cannon spread increased from 3.5 to 3.75
• Boosters impact damage reduced from 25 to 15

Doesnt anyone else think that barely does anything, 0.25 degree spread increase leads to what exactly? 4-6 less dmg per shot from a good range away?

Boosters as well just 10 less dmg?

That changes her burst capability by like what 30 dmg at best if the characters hitboxes are small.

I dont think thats really gonna do much, with the Zarya nerf being actually sufficient i think, D.va just gets even better pretty much, i dont think that this will change her dominant pickrate, is it just me or they needed to be a bit more heavy handed on these?

I think it is pretty substantial boost is a scrub killer

[nfcnorth-1711]

@Morningstar-12853

GOATS was created because they did not nerf Dive/tanks/supps in general and introduced the most ridiculous thing in the game called Brigitte almost single handedly killed the game, for the same reason i’m advocating here, stubbornly refusing to nerf the right things.

Dps imbalance was probably the biggest reason for Goats. Snipers pretty much dumpstered every dps at the time (they still kind of do tbh but it is more manageable) as such people looked to a comp that could surive snipers. It also didnt hurt that goats was a direct strategic counter to dive as well as the whole point of goata is never dying which counters dives main goal.

[nfcnorth-1711]

@Morningstar-12853

Dive is a tank inspired teamstyle, yes, proof is simply that its defined by Winston and D.va (or less used Zarya on ow1) with the dps/supp being pretty open, you never saw a Rein dive now did u?

Actually rein is more successful in dive than people give him credit for. Is he the best dive hero no but he isnt the garbabge that people think he is. And I would argue that a lot of it comes down to artificial labels put on heroes/comps more than actual balance/gameplay.

[Morningstar-12853]

@Alyenor-21688

Ah yes, Gold, famously high tier.

Sry, didnt know you had such horrible memory issues, lemme help you: My point is that balancing for high tier is good, you say its not

@Alyenor-21688

Because that has worked so well in the past 5 years or so (it hasn’t).

and gives Brig as an example, saying that it was something made for high lvl, then saying its made for GOLD, caught u up yet?

Dont you see that you just agreed with me that balancing for the high ranks is better than GOLD?

@Alyenor-21688

She did become useful in higher tiers. And everywhere else. And made other supports look bad.
So yeah, that went well.

“Useful” she became the most MUST PICK hero in the game at the time, she pressed E and denied a whole kill with no punishment, the most dumbed down BRONZE tier thing next to Brig imo.

@Alyenor-21688

Except they only gave non-mirrored winrates. That’s where D.Va is 4th.

Oh thats fair enough, thats not enough because D.va is famously a high skill ceilling hero, on the floor lvls she feeds alot specially playing into Zarya and STILL beat half the tank roster, tells ya something.

@Lumin-1385

This is your bias talking though. Tanks aren’t OP in general.

Yes, we all have biases, i believe tanks are OP in general, not by much, i’m also enjoying 5v5 more than 6v6, doesnt really prove my point is wrong though.

@Pearl-11865

the nerfs to DVa arent needed to begin with

Sez u

@Akary-1113

I think it is pretty substantial boost is a scrub killer

Hm? what do u mean by this?

@nfcnorth-1711

Dps imbalance was probably the biggest reason for Goats. Snipers pretty much dumpstered every dps at the time (they still kind of do tbh but it is more manageable) as such people looked to a comp that could surive snipers.

Idk what meta ure referring to here, when did Snipers were ever OP before RQ was introduced to BAN goats?

@nfcnorth-1711

It also didnt hurt that goats was a direct strategic counter to dive as well as the whole point of goata is never dying which counters dives main goal.

GOATS never dying is a counter to the WHOLE GAME not only dive, lmao.

[Akary-1113]

@Morningstar-12853

@Akary-1113

I think it is pretty substantial boost is a scrub killer

Hm? what do u mean by this?

I mean… if she kills you with boost your a scrub

[Morningstar-12853]

Ok, then i guess high lvl players dont use their boost ability huh, great take

[nfcnorth-1711]

@Morningstar-12853

Idk what meta ure referring to here, when did Snipers were ever OP before RQ was introduced to BAN goats?

Double sniper was the meta that directly proceeded goats. Before people discovered goats it was all about widow and hanzo until goats was discovered by a team looking to fight it. Aka it was the meta goats was designed to fight against. If snipers were not so dominant people would not have looked to the extreme that is goats which is all in on living though things.

[Akary-1113]

@Morningstar-12853

Ok, then i guess high lvl players dont use their boost ability huh, great take

they dont die by it.

[nfcnorth-1711]

Pretty sure the team that created goats did so because they didnt have a good widow or hanzo player to carry them like the other teams at the time and said as much when asked about it.

[Morningstar-12853]

@nfcnorth-1711

Double sniper was the meta that directly proceeded goats.

U mean preceeded?

Goats began being meta on what season , season 2 OWL or something, the game was sooo young, every meta before GOATS was still just the high lvl play getting discovered really, i dont even remember this Double Sniper meta much,

It was like 2018 or something, long time ago i dont even completely recall it.

i remember Hanzo got an greatly overpowered rework that made him actually see some play, before people just realized that just playing GOATS was just the way to go about everything.

@Akary-1113

they dont die by it.

Ah yes, because D.va just doesnt use boosters there, ofc, boosters is such an terrible ability at high lvl.

@nfcnorth-1711

Pretty sure the team that created goats did so because they didnt have a good widow or hanzo player to carry them like the other teams at the time and said as much when asked about it.

Interesting, then Brig was introduced eventually making that just completely unstoppable, again, even on 2018 tanks/supps were dictating the game’s tempo waaay more than DPS, still is the case, to a lesser degree thankfully but still too much.

[Alyenor-21688]

@Morningstar-12853

and gives Brig as an example, saying that it was something made for high lvl, then saying its made for GOLD, caught u up yet?

I said Brig was made to break Dive and counter Tracer, neither of which were issues in Gold. How does that equate to me saying she was made for Gold ?

@Morningstar-12853

“Useful” she became the most MUST PICK hero in the game at the time

Yeah. The rework achieved its goal. And then some.

@Morningstar-12853

thats not enough because D.va is famously a high skill ceilling hero, on the floor lvls she feeds alot specially playing into Zarya and STILL beat half the tank roster, tells ya something.

I mean, when you look at who’s behind her…
JunkerQueen was strong in beta and was nerfed for release I think ?
Winston is about as strong as D.Va, but way less popular and with a higher skill floor. (EDIT: funnily enough he’s pretty much the only tank in OWL)
Orisa is probably slightly behind D.Va, but not that far.
Ball is a mystery. Seriously do people play him ?
Roadhog and Doomfist are… Well, down there in the dumpster.
Being 4th out of 10 is hardly an achievement. Especially when half of what’s behind is horrendous.

[Lumin-1385]

@Morningstar-12853

Yes, we all have biases, i believe tanks are OP in general, not by much, i’m also enjoying 5v5 more than 6v6, doesnt really prove my point is wrong though.

I would argue that the only way tanks can do their job of taking space in 5 v 5 is to be significantly stronger than the DPS. To the point where a tank should never lose a 1 v 1 duel to anything but another tank. And should be able to take 1 v 2 duels. Otherwise, I don’t think they are dangerous enough. What needs to be limited with tanks is range. Which it is.

[Morningstar-12853]

@Alyenor-21688

I said Brig was made to break Dive and counter Tracer, neither of which were issues in Gold. How does that equate to me saying she was made for Gold ?

Okay, fair enough, i also need help with my memory appearently.

I meant to say Brig was created with an kit that was made for Gold players (actually more like Bronze) to counter dive, her design was utterly not made with high lvl play in mind, wich disproves what u said.

@Alyenor-21688

Yeah. The rework achieved its goal. And then some.

Achieved its goal wrongly with no skill-ceilling to floor consideration, making her utterly broken by design, thats pretty bad in my books.

@Alyenor-21688

JunkerQueen was strong in beta and was nerfed for release I think ?

Correct, JQ was broken at Beta 2, nerfed for release, part of the reason i believe their data on tanks was so scuffed, all that was played was Queen.

@Alyenor-21688

Winston is about as strong as D.Va, but way less popular and with a higher skill floor.

Correct, pretty much, wait, hows ur skill floor definition work?

@Alyenor-21688

Orisa is probably slightly behind D.Va, but not that far.

Orisa is just really bad Zarya, wich is then bad into Zarya and D.va, pretty weak atm, her ultimate is barely an comparison to say Grav or Flux.

@Alyenor-21688

Ball is a mystery. Seriously do people play him ?

Ball is in the same vein as Doom, hard countered by Sombra, very difficult character to play with and against, unless you pick Sombra.

@Alyenor-21688

Roadhog and Doomfist are… Well, down there in the dumpster.

No arguing against that.

@Alyenor-21688

Being 4th out of 10 is hardly an achievement. Especially when half of what’s behind is horrendous.

Rein is also down there in the dumpster, right next to Orisa.

They gotta nerf these 4 that are clearly on the top so that the tank roster flourishes.

@Alyenor-21688

(EDIT: funnily enough he’s pretty much the only tank in OWL)

Whoda thought, its not like he needed nerfs since the very first closed alpha and never got one.

[Andough-1183]

I’ve literally never felt like her booster damage was too strong.

[Koboldoggo-1596]

I never thought her boosters should do damage. It’s just one more thing ontop of the myriad of other stuff she can do and I don’t know why it’s even there.