The turreteer trifecta controversy, Reworks and their issues

General Discussion
1

If your confused about the title i refer to bastion torb and symmetra

Whenever someone is asked about this three everyone screams REWOOORK including blizzard,But honestly, this has to stop

Blizzard is convinced in the fact that this heros will never work, they just dont work in any situations, their bad and horrible and cannot be used

But sincerely? I disagree

With the symmetra rework i can tell they are trying to make them more offense oriented, while that is fine, reworking their kits is completly unecesary

The main problem with this heroes is their necesity for time, to deploy and stuff, and in a fast paced game like OW, needing 2 or 3 seconds gets you killed, so they will never workā€¦rightā€¦? Well No

Inestead of completly removing this heros niches in favor of more aggresive playstyles are unecesary, when we can accomodate both, ill provide some example changes

For Bastion: While this might seem controversial, other than the community-accepted changes,i propose to give him a barrier, But before you panic hear me out

This barrier will be placed on his E ability which is missing, this barrier will be deployed by holding the E button and be disabled when the button is dropped, it may have 200 - 400 hp max, and bastion may not fire while its active he is phyisically unable to do so

Why give him a barrier? You ask.

Well, bastions main issue is when he deploys he instantly gets deleted due to lack of protection, having his own personal shield makes him able to pop it as he is deploying to not be murdered instantly, or give him better counterplay to beeing rushed,

This buff is also good because it doesnt encourage pirate ship more, having a barrier that preventd you to shoot will be counter productive to the kill dozer playstyle this comp wants, and you have tanks with shields so it would be unecesary

For torb, id simply,in between other changes like critbox, let him carry his turret arround, pick it up and deploy it, while giving the turret better survivability/sustain (pherhaps 150 armor 150 shields? In lvl 2) While making the loss of a turret more punishing by causing the cooldown to start after the turret was broken

The shield hp will have the turret able to self heal after a period of time not needing to babysit it as much, the armor make it more survivable after beeing under fire,

While the more punishing loss of a turret is directly sent towards the lower ranks that struggle with this types of heroes, once its destroyed they have a 8s without a turret to fight,

While it might seem like an overall nerf to the turret total active time, consider that if torb loses his turret mid battle, it is highly unlikely that he will make another one and upgrade it,it will just not happen,

Also, the ability to move your turret helps you to.be able to move it out, repair it, and put it down,or fall back with your turret as to not lose it, or make it behind a wall and put it in the back of the battle as your team advances and you push

For.sym, as her rework is already done i will not extend much, but it was unecesary

Changed like, making her turret reveal targets they shoot at, and turn invisible when not firing while combined with the throwableness would be good for her

Anyways ty for.reading

1 Like
2

Symm is fine now.Torb and Bast could use a rework still

2 Likes
3

But reworks should be the last option, not the first

I did not state sym wasnt fine,i said her rework was unecesary at best

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Iā€™m not sure ā€˜trifectaā€™ is the right word hereā€¦ might I suggest ā€˜triumvirateā€™. Or just ā€˜trioā€™ would be better.

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Trifecta sounds better tho

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But it doesnā€™t mean a group of threeā€¦:thinking:

A ā€˜trifectaā€™ is a bet that someone makes when they are predicting which three competitors (in a race etc) will finish first.

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Idk XD personally iā€™d complietly rework Mercy :rofl: Iā€™d remove lock on from guardian angel and make it a dash ability,with which she can fly in any direction,up,down,left,right,and everything in between.And on a 3 sec CD.

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But i didnt mention mercy-

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Nah I meant if they reworked her.

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For Torbā€¦no rework needed.

Overwatch is currently reworking Torb in the hopes of making him a more viable pick because theyā€™ve acknowleged that the majority of players consider him a ā€œtrollā€ pick

If you do not currently consider Torbjorn a viable pick for your team, would you consider him a viable pick on most maps if all of the following changes were made? Notes with details follow the basic list below

General Changes

  1. hitbox/critbox shrunk to be proportionate to his actual size

Armor Pack changes

  1. Torb starts with an armor pack applied to him and 25 scrap

  2. Armor pack that hits the ground will instead apply to any 1 ally within 20 meters who lacks armor
    If no ally meets the criteria, armor pack dissolves and 25 scrap is refunded to Torb

  3. Armor pack can be applied to Turret

  4. Scrap collection occurs from 20m away

Turret Changes

  1. Turret drops as a level 2 - there is no more level 1 turret

  2. Hammering repairs 100 damage per swing (up from 50)

  3. Turret can be thrown a distance equal to 1 level up

  4. Turret AI modified to
    not fire at Zarya whie bubbled
    not fire at Genji while he is deflecting
    not fire at Dva while she is protected by matrix
    target unshielded targets as priority before shielded targets

  5. Turret slowly self-repairs when Torb is at least x meters away

  6. Existing Turret cannot be teleported by Symmetra
    (Torb can still teleport turret by throwing turret into existing teleporter)

Ultimate Changes

  1. Ammo usage is halved during Molten Core

Looking for Yes and NO votes here, mostly.

I am not asking if youā€™d pick Torb yourself ā€” I am asking if youā€™d be more comfortable with Torb as a teammate if these changes were made
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Some details, if you want them:
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I think a lot of people dislike Torb because he spends a lot of time doing things that dont kill the enemy or hold a point. Running around collecting scrap to he can provide armor. Hammering away all the time just to provide the team with a fairly weak turret, even at level 2, and then hammering more to keep it alive. Throwing armor packs that mostly end up unused on the ground. So the changes I am suggesting are MOSTLY intended to keep Torb as a builder/engineer, but reduce or eliminate all the time he has to spend away from combat.

The hit and critbox thing isnt related to time wasted,but rather just to pure survivability, since many folks see Torb as he is as an easy kill.

Some have said armor packs should be eliminated, either because Brigitte has them now too or because most of them get wasted on the ground. Well, Brigā€™s packs arent quite the same as Torbs, tho, and a mechanic could be devised fairly easily to get more of them onto teammates and fewer on the ground - for example, each armor pack could be equipped with a small drone that carries them to the nearest ally without armor. Simple enough. This problem could also be lessened a bit if Torb could apply an armor pack to Turret - thats one fewer on the ground and one more helping the blue team :slight_smile: In any case, if more folks operated more often with Torbā€™s armor on them, I think Torb would be considered a more valuable ally

I think a lot of the negativity for Torb is because many Torb players stay with their turret rather than with their team. I agree that this is an issue. Iā€™ve added the self repair as an incentive for Torb to move away from it because the reason they stay with the Turret currently is to repair it. If the Turret self-repairs, there is not nearly as much incentive to stay with it as there is now

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Torbā€™s gun could also use some work.

For Bastion i could see his tank mode nerfed and placed on E to give him mobility, then his ult could potentially be the tanky shielded mode which would allow him to walk into combat shooting without fear, for once.

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False: self repair is Bastionā€™s ā€œEā€ itā€™s just bound to right click by default, something unique to Bastion.

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Torbā€™s gun is one of the things that is darned near perfect, actually

Just needs to reload when ult is initiated so that Molten Core time isnt wasted with so many reloads

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Ok so heā€™s missing a right-click ability that could be bound to E, then.

1 Like
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well yeahā€¦he isnt meant to deploy in middle of a fight. he is meant to hunekr down and wait for them to get to him,

also adding a shield would reduce his coutners (think a tracer ult wouldnt kill him)

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Precisely :face_with_monocle:

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I find people just way underestimate how the number of disparate toons makes for the impossible to get rightly balanced up front, if ever situation.

How big can the matrix get before it is to be expected it canā€™t be fully properly balanced out?
Why assume that a game of 20+ unique character even could be?
Maybe another 50 years of game dev and weā€™d learn that no team PvP game with > X unique toons can be properly constructed not need more tweaking to make fair/balanced.

My own POV is, once we got out past about 15 toons, balance iteration and toon rework was probably going to be an ever on going demand. And weā€™ve just been adding more toons to the pile ever sense.

1 Like
18

  1. Pulse bomb doesnt kill him already

  2. it wouldnt remove counters, it would provide a much needed defense and counterplay against his counters, timing a shield just right to block a hook/pulse bomb is a skilled play that not everyone can pull off

  3. He is still not meant to deploy in the middle of it he will be focused and if reins 2000 hp shield doesnt last a second a 400 hp one even less, it will provide him some defense against displacing tools like hook, but it can atleast protect him as he is transforming

19

We do need the last option. Even if they become balanced, their current playstyle appeals to far too few players.

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There are plenty of bastion mains out there, lets not have another symmetra situation where they remove the hero from all the ppl who mained them beforr hand

So yeah, dont ignore the players the hero already has