The Talon Faction: who is the strongest ingame?

so ingame we have doomfist, reaper, moira, widowmaker, sombra and sigma. right now in my opinion its sigma and widow being the really the good safe picks for owning games. followed by niche heroes doomfist and sombra who can still own but you have to be extremely good with them and have spent time learning their every nuance. moira is on the lower balanced support side while reaper seems to be doing horribly at the moment

out of all these 6 lorewise i dont know who the leader is or the ranking pecking order? reaper and doomfist seem to be commander types while widowmaker and sigma are brainwashed agents. moira seems more like an evil scientist (dont know her true agendas…) while sombra is the hacker but an unknown opportunist thats in it for herself or maybe some other unknown faction? so i do find it funny that the supposed commanders are the weak villians, kinda like saturday morning cartoon types they act all tough but in reality are wimps. the brainwashed and maniacal being the really dangerous ones. the oppurtunist being an owl pick and the evil scientist just being an aftermention

what do you guys think?

also i wish i had 5 other friends that play as much as i do so we could make an all talon team in open queue (quickplay). i should probably post that on LFG sometime ā€œLOOKING FOR TALON MEMBERS!ā€

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Gameplay wise I’d say Sigma, Widowmaker, Doomfist, Moira, Sombra, and Reaper based on pickrates and my personal experience against them.

Doomfist is at the top as leader of Talon, followed by Reaper and Moira who are on the high council, followed by Widowmaker who has some authority over other Talon units based on the behind the scenes look at India, and with Sigma at the bottom because his brainwashing doesn’t appear to be complete. Sombra is pretty much outside of the Talon hierarchy and functions similar to a reliable mercenary like Boba Fett in the Empire.

Power levels are difficult to pinpoint based on some characters having limited lore to go off of and possible retcons (idk if Doomfist can actually level a skyscraper). Sigma would be at the top if he developed his powers enough because gravity manipulation is broken. Doomfist would be next because he’s strong and fast enough to make Tracer and Genji look like annoying flies. Moira would be next since her powers are just Reaper’s but modified, with Reaper of course being after her due to his slightly inferior cellular regeneration, strength, agility, etc.

Sombra is pretty situational: She’s really good against people with dark secrets or a lot of tech (Omnics especially) but pretty screwed against people who have neither of those cough Roadhog cough. Widowmaker is at the bottom because she’s just pretty agile and a good sniper.

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oh cool i dont read much off the lore or go in-depth to it but that sounds really interesting. the council thing is cool was that referenced in the comics?

I don’t know for sure but this is what I think based on what we’ve seen. Some people think that DF is the leader but I’m not sure about this. Reaper doesn’t talk to DF like he is addressing his superior, he talks to him like an equal, even sort of mocks him when he tells him ā€œYou are lateā€ which I don’t think is disrespect, it’s just banter between them. Lets also not forget that Reaper is potentially even more dangerous/powerful than DF himself and the reason I believe this is that Reaper showed that he is more than capable of going against Winston and maybe even beat him, while on the other hand Winston defeated DF. I know this is circumstantial and doesn’t prove anything but when I think about it, I do believe Reaper could overpower DF IF he wanted to due to his supernatural abilities but he won’t because he sees DF as a means to an end, and maybe agrees with his vision.

Another hint of this is how the guy that DF killed in the comic, I forgot his name, doesn’t really address DF as a definite leader who has final authority. I think Talon is and has always been a sort of circle of leaders and I think Reaper and DF are two amongst others, some of which we probably saw at the table in the comic but don’t know who they are yet.

I think Widow and Sombra are agents, they don’t have leadership roles within the organization, but Moira I’m not sure. Moira is a special case IMO because she clearly has the intelligence to be a leader, but whether or not she is interested in that is not clear enough, it doesn’t seem like it though as she seems laser focused on her scientific experiments, I don’t think she cares about leading the organization.

I think it’s safe to say that DF might be the one driving the current vision of Talon because he is very driven and passionate about his beliefs, but I wouldn’t say he has absolute authority over the whole organization. He is like the frontman of the band but he doesn’t have the final say.

As for Sigma I think you are right, he is just a puppet for Talon, that is why they got him although, in terms of raw power, he might be the strongest one and the most dangerous in the whole organization. HOWEVER, I will say something sassy, I think the most VALUABLE member of Talon, is Moira. She is literally the one who can give them the ā€œwinā€ because one way or another she has the intelligence to do things that others can’t, for example, she gave supernatural capabilities to Gabriel, imagine what else can she do.

I have a very different view than yours ha! But it’s interesting to see different perspectives.

i like on the wiki story/lore page of doomfist it explains how he was a tournament martial arts fighter determined to be the best until he lost his arm due to the omnic crisis. that is what disqualified him from tournaments but he was unsatisfied with any other profession which lead him to talon and the first guy who owned the gauntlet

In-game, for gameplay, an excellent Widowmaker is the best in the list.

In the lore, the ā€˜strongest’ on paper should be Sigma, because he manipulates gravity; however, he is unstable himself (which could make that aspect even more dangerous than only if he was using that capacity in a perfectly controlled manner). Unfortunately for Sigma, he’s being used and I feel like Sigma himself is too unstable to either be fully aware of it, or to sufficiently ā€˜care’ about it. He doesn’t seem to have any particular agenda on his own, with the sole exception of better understanding and manipulating gravity. He’s pretty much ā€œon his ownā€ for the time being, while being used by Talon.

Reaper is for all intent and purposes a full ā€œmeta humanā€ in the lore. He cannot die, probably cannot age anymore, can completely reshape his body into a ā€˜mist’ or whatever that thing is, and pass through the smallest openings and cracks and so on. He literally teleports himself and ā€œfeedsā€ on life essence to heal himself. The biggest downside to his powers I can imagine is that he’ll outlive everyone, including all the organizations and the current events. I can totally see him wandering the world a thousand years after the events of OW in a completely different society.

Widowmaker, we know enough about her for now to know that she’s following Talon orders, at the very least (and, for now anyway). She seems to be ā€œon a leashā€ so to speak. Especially in regards to Moira. It seems like Moira is her direct superior (not necessarily Talon’s leader, but Moira has authority on Widowmaker and probably Reaper, too). Moira’s interactions with Widowmaker lead me to believe that rather easily. The one interaction where Moira remarks ā€œIs that emotion I detect Lacroix?ā€ is a good one. Moira wouldn’t speak like that to Widowmaker if they had no link at all within the organization. It appears that Moira maybe have been the ā€˜main scientist’ at Talon responsible for ā€œcreatingā€ Widowmaker (the scientist in charge at whatever Talon Labs where the experiments on AmĆ©lie Lacroix occurred). So Moira is able to, and allows herself the freedom to give remarks to a Talon agent like it’s not a big deal at all. So for the moment, as long as Widowmaker ā€œbelongsā€ to Talon (and Moira) she will keep following orders. For now Widow doesn’t seem to have her own motives and goals, only that she merely follows orders and is being sent on various missions for Talon’s machinations. It may change in OW2, who knows, we’ll see.

Doomfist is definitely aiming for leadership of Talon. I don’t think he is the actual Talon leader though. But I sure believe he wants that position. I’m almost certain that Doomfist will be one of the ā€œmain villainsā€ in OW2’s campaign.

Sombra’s Origin story reveal was clear, she wants to find who controls the world, and when she does, she wants to ā€œpull the stringsā€ as she put it. A very ambitious goal to say the least. She wants to gradually and by ā€˜proxy’ reach the very top; she wants to know who is behind the curtain prepping the show, and then manipulate them either directly or indirectly (by ā€œpulling the stringsā€, making them her puppets). I don’t see why she would manage to do that, because in the world of OW it looks like she’s absolutely not alone wanting something along the lines of ā€œcontrolling the worldā€ one way or another. She’ll have to first deal with Talon, then deal with the return of Overwatch as a functioning organization (since Winston confirms OW is ā€œbackā€ and OW2’s story mode will focus on that for sure); and not to mention possibly having to deal with the new ongoing and rising Omnic Crisis 2.0, so if he wants to manipulate the whole show… she’ll have a lot of work to do, and she’ll put her life at risk doing so at every corner. Her own downside, I think, will be that she will need ā€œfriendsā€ to achieve her goals, and one of them in the bunch is simply sooner or later going to backstab her, and she’ll find out the hard way I’m pretty sure.

As for Moira herself, well she does seem to be the main Talon ā€œdocā€, the ā€˜mad scientist’ in charge of doing all sorts of experiments. The reality I think is that, for Moira, working ā€œwithā€ (rather than ā€œforā€) Talon is merely beneficial for her research and experiments. I think it’s a sort of mutual agreement thing without necessarily meaning that Moira couldn’t separate herself from them if she wanted to. I think that Talon needs her more than Moira needs them. But for now, it seems to work in her (and their) favor pretty much on a 50-50 basis. She comes up with all sorts of ā€˜freaks of nature’ so to speak, and some of those fit the bill perfectly for Talon as their new agents. As it is, in the end, I think that Talon basically finances Moira’s research, and in return Moira provides Talon with new products, so to speak. I’m not sure if Moira does have any long-term ambitions outside of just manipulating genes and the human body and mind; she doesn’t exactly strike me as the ā€œI want to control the world!ā€ type of person. She seems too sophisticated of a ā€˜villain’ to be that type. She wouldn’t find a problem in creating a ā€˜puppet’ for herself I guess but then again I don’t think she’s the type of villain sending agents around the world to then eventually control everything. I think she’s just ā€œfineā€ for now amusing herself and applying her scientific knowledge in her Labs thanks to Talon’s financial and ā€˜moral’ support.

But yeah, in the game right now I think Widowmaker is the best if played well. Because Reaper… well, we know what happened to him recently. Doomfist is kinda hit or miss, he seems to be even more situational than Widow (gameplay-wise, and map-wise, too). Sigma actually feels clunky to play and there’s some obvious things that need to be addressed about him but the devs are too busy on OW2 development for now. And Moira is just not as good as either Ana or Baptise, period; heck I’d go with Mercy over Moira anyway.

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Lorewise I think Sigma is definitely the most powerful. He can literally control gravity, he has virtually no limit to his power, he’s just held back by his fragile mental state and being manipulated by Talon. If he wanted to, or was able to, I don’t think Talon could do a damn thing to stop him if they lost control of him.

I think it’s pretty clear lore-wise Doom is incredibly powerful himself, as in it took Genji, Tracer and Winston to apprahend him and they barely made it.

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just like in canon!

she wants to know who really runs the world of some bs, she is just in it for herself.

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Lore wise sigma should be a Demi god like character compared to the rest of the roster. He’s also probably the best in game.

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he kind of reminds me of magneto from the marvel universe. they are not totally similar but he had gravity manipulation as his power too and was kinda insane

I feel like Sombra would be the most powerful out of them simply because her hack can deny so much. From various ultimates to any ability, she can prevent self healing or resurrection, a contesting ball, Mei from ice blocking, Rein from doing anything. I’d also argue in-lore she’s potentially the most powerful for similar reasons, but also because knowledge IS power and clearly she knows how to work some blackmail

yea i liked what speedwagon said she mainly a mercenary

she seems to put her focus on some weird things, she knows how to stop a man from running, but can’t stop the same mans aimbot…

sigma. dude can fly and control gravity at will. for in game? i expect sombra to slam into the 10-20% pick rate range by next season (once t500 comes out LOL)

Maybe I’m stupid but I don’t understand exactly what you’re referencing :rofl:

sombra can hack solider 76’s run ability, but you can’t hack tatical visor, wich is literally aim bot.

as i said
she can stop a man from literally running but doesn’t know how to shut down some aimbot (go try hacking solider whilst he is using his ult, it wont get rid of tactical visor)

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when i first played her and didnt know anything and i thought you could, got myself killed by tactical visor heh. i probably still dont know all what she can or cant do. since i think i only have 3 hours on her or less… have to check later.

(edit: i have 25 hours on her)

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her hack is inconsistent, it hacks all abilitys, she can hack some people ults whislt they are in use but not all, (for an example you can hack sigma’s ult and stop literal gravity, but not aim bot :slight_smile: )