The sniper problem vs the healing problem

Ashe has been dominating the DPS scene since her buffs in april 5 months ago, and widow has been dominating since the end of double shield, we all know that, but lets go over why other DPS aren’t used despite all but sym being enabled by the lack of shields.

Widow has always been a good pick if you were good with her, but she had never been “meta” until moth double sniper, where she had 8 second grapple, as well as mercy being able to enable her heavily

Hanzo outside of that meta has never been meta due to his one shot, but instead was used for his shield break and the synergy and zoning potential that dragonstrike has, with his one shot being an added bonus.

Now, one shots are almost the only way for anything to die because of how far sustain has crept in the game

when there were only 3 healers, lucio zen and mercy, lucio was the only one with AOE healing outside of ult, providing only 16 per second to an AOE, mercy providing 60 to a single target, and zen providing 30 to a single target

then ana was released, providing 70 to a single target, but requiring aim, making it much less consistent than mercy, but still valuable if you were good at the hero.

Then late 2017 comes along, and blizzard devs have the false idea that a game needs to evolve for players to remain interested, which isn’t the case, and release new mechanics for sustain, providing high AOE heals of 80 HPS + the healing from orb + the healing from coal, which can all 3 be stacked together, brig is released, providing both the same healing output as lucio, but also providing armor, which ruins the viability of any non burst DPS, and then baptiste in 2019, providing burst 60 HP per shot in an AOE, as well as 30 HPS from his shift, and a literal defensive ult level ability

A character like tracer does 240-480 damage if you have aimbot level accuracy, GM players consider having 45%+ accuracy on tracer (against GM level movement) to be good aim. Do you see a problem here?

So when tracers are doing around 140-260 damage per clip in reality, and then having to spend a full second reloading before being able to finish the job, characters being able to put out near triple digit healing per second completely disrupts their ability to get kills

on top of that, characters like tracer genji and doom are melee range characters, meaning they put WAY more risk onto themselves, by having to play in the range of any character in the game, as well as playing in the range of all CC’s and spam damage that isnt even meant for them

Snipers take on none of that risk, but yet get 100x the reward, because their kits just straight up ignore healing. It doesnt matter how bad sustain creep gets, widow ashe and hanzo will always be good because they can ignore sustain and play with virtually no risk.

Sustain creep has to be addressed if you want snipers to go away, otherwise nothing will die at all unless they’re killed by tanks or ultimates, and that isn’t how overwatch is meant to be. Risk should have reward potential, other aim types than sniping should be able to get kills, and healing shouldn’t be so damn powerful

9 Likes

Did Ana not contribute to AoE heals as well? Nade when it was +100% was broken. Ana/Lucio could heal an entire team to full.

9 Likes

Sym is a spam hero, so absence of barriers is still pretty good for her. It’s harder to charge up, but you can hold chokes well.

Blizzard has made a mistake of (poorly) copying Medic from TF2 and using that archetype as basis of support. They should have looked at other games like Battlefield, Enemy Territory or Dirty Bomb, where healers are equally capable fighters (as all DPS) in 1v1, but with a different perk. So some DPS have a gun and a grenade launcher, while supports have gun and health regeneration packs to give out or something. This would have been a lot healthier for this type of team game.

they should look at overwatch for examples of healthy supports, no one complains about lucio zen or ana for a very good reason, and mercy complaints are rarely justifiable

every support released after that was a mistake that went against the original design and path of the game

5 Likes

When you played 1m in bronze and think you know everything

spam hero lol.

6 Likes

Ana has an overloaded kit compared to every original support, more so considering that Mercy didn’t originally have an E ability. They even had to buff Mercy to keep up with Ana and started at least two metas on her own. I don’t see how she was a healthy support.

4 Likes

the only thing really that makes anas kit overloaded currently IMO is that her ult heals the nanod target

Hanzo was not used for barrier breaking, ever.

Numbers are wrong. Mercy was healing 50 per second for nearly a year after launch. Lucio’s healing was much lower, and Zenyatta’s healing back then was still 30, but shortly after launch, Transcendence was buffed to 300 healing per second and given a movement speed buff.

75 healing, 80 damage.

Inaccurate, extremely.

At 45% accuracy, you will never reach those numbers for Tracer, or for any character except Bastion in Sentry mode.

Multiplied by 40%, 56 to 104.

No healing then, now, or in past has ever surpassed potential damage. It can get awfully close, but healing - while very powerful back then - never got to anywhere near three times the damage output of a single character.

You are ignoring several important factors. Snipers don’t get kills unless they score headshots, and Ashe is not a sniper, nor does she get a one-shot kill even with a headshot.

It was, several months ago when Blizzard lowered the healing levels of every major, top end Support including Moira, Baptiste, and Brigitte. Another recent pass saw Biotic Orb and Regen Burst see even more reductions.

Welcome to reaching the conclusion two years late.

Only applies to Mercy.

See other Supports like Baptiste.

Lucio is borderline broken. Ana needs examination by OW2. Zenyatta has some issues that can’t really be addressed right now.

No, this is wrong. Ana has issues, but it is not due to an overloaded kit.

Irrelevant and not an accurate comparison.

This is wrong.


Folks, healing was a problem because every newly introduced healing was outpacing other healers by leaps and bounds. But it wasn’t just healing, mitigation through barriers and additional tanking abilities like Fortify, Ironclad, Steadfaster, Defense Matrix and more were being introduced and passed around.

Healing was not, and never was going to be above damage output. GOATS happened and players were still dying, and the biggest Support-side healers were ones with the lowest outputs, but the highest utility (Ana, Lucio, Zen).

Healing output was certainly a factor, up until recently. Blizzard has needed to bring down the level of mitigation through barriers and healing and has done so. More still needs to be done, but overall healing is in a much better place now, mitigation is not.

The reason why Widowmaker or Ashe is dominating has nothing to do with healing.

orb spam is :poop: and if orbs were meant to be spammed, explain their sniper-like charge time please. sym gets work done either by flanking or being team pocketed to w+m1. for some :poop: reason blizz decided to :put_litter_in_its_place: the former with the infinite tp nerf, so sym just inherently have high hero down time due to needing to wait for team pocket all the time. no shields —> no team pocket —> sym’s got nothing for hero uptime.

so no. sym does not thrive when there’s lack of shields. and it’s legit blizz’s fault both for her current situation and for making her reliant on shields in the first place.

1 Like

Killing barriers first. Killing supports now. Because… no one dies? What a lie.
Let’s just delete every support and tank and just play dps, it would be more fair and a lot of people will die in the matches. That is how Overwatch is meant to be, right? Like a team deatmatch in CoD.
Enjoy your 10 min queues.

*Mercy only healed 50 at the start. It got buffed to 60 a short zime before the rework and Lucio had less healing too (but a 30m range)

1 Like

Her grenade has 4 different effects. Her Nanoboost has 3.
No other support had that much in their kit.

Not irrelevant, see comment: “Ana has an overloaded kit compared to every original support”.

July 26, 2016
Ana
Biotic Rifle
Rate of fire increased by 20%
Magazine size increased from 8 to 10

September 1, 2016
Mercy
Caduceus Staff
Healing Beam
Healing-per-second has been increased by 20%
" Mercy’s healing is also getting a boost to solidify her role as a strong, single-target healer."

Ok.

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Is this topic from like three or four months ago? You wrote all these words to say the exact same thing people keep parroting over and over.

Ya fine. Make supports impotent punching bags. Watch the folks who enjoy that role bleed from the game.

1 Like

What are you talking about?

Moira’s already been nerfed to 70hps, and goes through her rescources much faster.

Baptiste’s nades have been nerfed to 50hp per nade, his ammo has been nerfed into the ground, AoE heal has been gutted, and Immortality field has been nerfed into the ground.

Mercy’s base healing has been nerfed by 5hp she couldn’t afford to lose, now she’s not even considered a main healer most of the time.

Brigitte’s AoE healing, health, and shield have been gutted, and her ability to give armor has been deleted from repair pack.

Even Ana (the dev’s pet) has gotten a few healing nerfs.

This is why snipers aren’t going away.

5 Likes

Sustain isn’t a thing anymore. This is the biggest lie right now. If you can’t kill people as Soldier 76 right now you just aren’t good at the game, sorry.

So many people straight up don’t read your post and just type “you want supports to be free kills!!” lol

3 Likes

I’ve actually heard the perfect response to this in an unrelated post.

The issues with snipers is that they completely erase a character from full health to zero, thus negating the ability for a healer to recover any damage whatsoever. This has no impact on how much healing any healer can do as it become irrelevant once a player goes from full health to zero.

In a game where 1/3 players are expected to recover missing damage the ability for one role to negate that from going from full to zero is the problem. One-shot kills has always been the problem in this game.

2 Likes

Both nothing compared to the player base problem.

Have you ever checked how wide orb really is? You can miss Tracer by her entire character width and still land 120 damage at any range. Sym orb spam is unrivaled for denying corner peeking, they block vision and they hit around corners.

The first meta when Ana came out was Beyblade. Sure, then both of them got nerfed but having bionade indirectly buffed every AoE heal ingame giving everyone the false feeling of other AoE heals are broken. Bionade with pockets wasnt that broken but Ana-Lúcio, Ana-Bap and Ana-Brig were must pick combos in the past.

Hanzo surely needed rework for the consistency because of the Scatter but Storm Arrow was a bad idea. And why give a sniper wallhack?

Widow… When a DPS can maintain space better than a tank its really a big problem. And once again, why give a sniper wallhack?

Sustain couldnt prevent one shots though. Overheals did. But they decided that Sym and Brig are unhealthy for the game. I mean, if you want to delete overheals, delete the one shots as well. You took off the weight from one side of the balance. The other instantly took over.

And i say it again, Ashe was a bad idea for the game. Designing a character just because the design team liked her design. We’ve got Widow in a cowgirl cosplay. Scope, rifle, AoE damage over time E, mobility LShift. The ult is the only different thing and thank god its not a wallhack again.

1 Like