So the most common complain about echo is her 3 lives during her ult. I can understand why her bombs are nasty, i can understand why her beam is nasty, but the ult? Its ok at best, as reality hasnt come even close to the OP version we all thought it was.
So the simple reason she must have 3 lives during her ult, and not die in it:
When she transforms, 2 things happens:
Everyone focus on her.
She has to play super aggresive to charge up her desired ult (or ults).
Even one of those things is enough to get yourself killed, so both together? I havnt seen even one echo who survived her entire ult without dying. Heck, most of the time i dont even see an echo gets an ult charged on time.
Let me compare her to phara for a second. Phara’s ult is known as a suicide. Why? Because she out there in the open and everybody focus on her. Thats somehow like echo ult, if we replacing standing still in the open to playing super aggresive (which leave you open as well). But the big difference is - echo doesnt get instant value. Phara can die but she will take 2 or more enemies with her with ease. For echo to get value, she need to charge, and thats harder then you think in shield watch without being aggresive - which again, is suicide while getting focused on.
So, thats the simple reason echo MUST have 3 lives during her ult.
When genji ults, everyone focuses him and he has to be extremely aggressive to get any value, yet he doesn’t get extra lives.
I understand what you’re saying, but certain ults main downside is their risk of death. Pharah, reaper, mccree, ect. Without that risk, and being able to use it recklessly unscathed, it fundamentally breaks the game.
Hasn’t really come close? It’s worse than what most of us anticipated. I was very outspoken about this topic and yet I still managed to slightly underestimate precisely how bad it was. I knew the ult itself was game-breaking, but I somehow underestimated precisely how fast that 650% bonus allows the hero to get that game-breaking ult or ults.
This is “mass rez”-power ult on a “launch Brig”-power hero, and I’m acutely impressed by the apologists flocking to defend her on the forums. There’s certainly no shortage of people hungry to grab for that insane power level.
If phara and mccree ults downside is standing still in the open, genji and reaper ults down side is their aggresive and too close playstyle. All of those has some sort of downsides and risks, but also all of those get instant value, and thats the main point.
Sure, you can counter those, same as you can counter echo. But if you dont counter phara, reaper, genji and mcree in the first 2 secs, its a team wipeout. For echo you have about 5 secs or more until she even charge her ult, and after that you all knoe she is about to ult and ready to rain fire and CC upon her. She lost the element of suprise. Echo ult as a reaper for exampe will be nothing compare to a original reaper ult.
mass rez could be pulled of succesfully with no chance for punishment.
launch brig had no counter, decapitated dive meta alone, gave birth to goats which directly led to RQ and contained all 3 roles in 1 character at the same time.
No, mass rez’s issue was that Mercy players could afford to think “Well, my ults up, so I don’t need to think about healing anymore. Everyone! Go die so I can rez you!”
Now, not EVERY mercy did this, but a crap ton of them did. And really, that kind of thinking was right. “Everyone, go die and I’ll instantly bring you back. Go stupid!” really was a valid strategy, but it really shouldn’t have been for someone who’s job was to prevent deaths.
Now, at least, her Rez is a last resort type skill and her ult can help her team.
Genjis ult is immediate. He doesn’t have to go into a second stage to farm his ult again. Give echo the ult right off the bat and then sure use that logic
Echoes ult straignt up wouldn’t work if it didn’t have those 3 stages. What they could do though is make her save the health she went into with as the same she will come out of it with. If she goes into it with 50 hp. She will come out with 50hp.
She should not self heal after her ult, she can alredy escape after it quite easly compared to most heroes after their ults. Self heal make overextending just really hard to punish.
There are a lot of things wrong with her Ult. Extra lives is pretty bad. Fully healed upon using it, fully healed when it ends and if you die you don’t. But she also gets all her CD’s reset after changing forms.
The fast charge rate for Ults is kind of annoying as well as many hero’s can get 2-3 ults off within the duration. An ultimate that allows you to get multiple copies of other hero’s ultimate plus all the healing and extra lives… makes it broken.
Now you don’t have to Nerf echo… but the other option is buffing every one else in the game. The excuse of “she might die” is garbage. Ever hero in the game suffers that problem. It’s so easy to simply stun many of them like RH to cancel his ult.
Genji has extreme mobility and often gets ulted with ana at the same time. Even if he dies, if he isn’t slept or hard focused by 2+ players, he likely took out at “least” 3 players.
Phara’s an easy target, but likely took out one or two unless the ult got shut down, reaper? Dude he heals so much its crazy but generally its a dual ult. Mccree? Ez death, dunno about how his ult buff months ago went.
The only risk of death to half the ults is being stunned, or shields. The other half the time it doesn’t actually matter.
Doomfist have a risk of death to his ult? Not really no, rein? only if low hp trying to sneak it. Bob? a great deal of ults can be used wrecklessly. Their ultimates, doesn’t matter if its wreckless, if you get a kill or two, chances of winning the team fight increase drastically. It’s why people spam them almost any chance they get with genji, hanzo, dva, etc. Kills matter moreso than being wreckless.
Dva has “two lives” which in reality only serve to punish her everytime she loses her papermache meka as she cannot do her job properly… And DPS whine about it constantly - every chance that they get for four bloody years already.
A DPS gets THREE lives and it’s “fine” by DPS standards because Echo is DPS and it’s okay if DPS heroes are broken and OP.
The double standards and mental gymnastics are astounding.
I never seen more then 1 ult charged, and usually its 0. So i watched some top 500 streamers to see how they done. I saw some of them manage to get 2 as tracer for example, but the pressure of farming and using their ult fast made them miss both pulse bombs.
Thats the downside behind this ult, you have to FARM those ults FAST which will get you killed, make mistakes, being too aggressive and too focused on that you will often get NO VALUE except your own survivol.
Then you can say - so dont make mistake, play safe! So you can stick behind shield, take your time, and you will finally charge 1 ult after about 10 secs (which the enemy will be 100% waiting for with a counter). Then you just another hero with less value then the original ult, as you get countered.
The extra lives is the only thing that make this ult good!
I dont care if dva gets 2 lives, never seen anyone cares either. Guess im too new here
How about she just gets out of the ult in the same state she went in? if she has 150 health going into the ult, she hast 150 health going out. If she hast 2 sec CD on her flight ability left when she uses ult, she still has 2 sec CD on it when she comes out.
Her ult actually is quite complicated because you can’t plan easily who to choose. The enemy D.Va might die and swap and then just when you need her ult to use at the right time (and let’s face it timing is everything with ults) suddenly it is no longer there. What do you do? I think this is putting some people off playing her. Ironically tank and support mains are in a better position when using her.