The real issue behind Pharah's rockets

General Discussion
1

I was around the forum looking up discussions about Pharah (as per usual), and I had a thought : “Right now I’d rather main Symmetra instead of Pharah”.

Out of curiosity I compared Symm’s orbs with Pharah’s rockets.

Result : Pharah’s rockets are waaaay more powerfull

  • travel 10m/s faster
  • splash radius bigger by 0.5m
  • splash min and max damage higher by 5dmg

So, why does it feel like Pharah can struggle a lot more to confirm kills (since her last nerf) ?

There is one simple reason, she doesn’t have any other source of damage except for her ult.
If you look at the entire roster Pharah is the only hero having aoe projectiles with decaying splash damage as her main and only source of damage.

All other heroes having the same kind of damage have at least another - more certain - source of damage :

  • Symm has turrets and her primary fire
  • Zarya has her primary fire
  • D.va has her primary fire
  • S76 has his primary fire
  • Ashe has her primary fire
  • Junkrat has his mines

Actually there is another hero whose other source of damage isn’t so certain, and that’s Sigma, but all his projectiles are faster than Pharah’s rockets. And he actually has a hard cc on his rock. Also, Sigma being a tank, him having a harder time confirming a kill doesn’t seem too shocking.

Do whatever you like with this info, to me it just confirms that Pharah is broken and outdated.
3 Likes
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And yet she is not going to get changed because she will dominate 222. So… Of I was a Pharah main, I would start focusing less on playing the victim and more on self improvement. But Das jus me.

1 Like
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Okay. Let me stop you right there.

Symmetras primary fire is probably the least certain form of damage in the entire game. I’d replace that with turrets

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On what kind of basis can you say she’ll dominate 2/2/2 ?
I don’t understand this point at all.

Sure a team with 3 dps hitscans will counter Pharah better, but will be a lot less efficient against the rest of her team, because that means only 1 tank, or only 1 support.
And since launch, there hasn’t been any meta where there wasn’t at least 2 tanks and 2 supports.

Also, there are solutions to counter Pharah in all roles. Hello Ana, Baptiste, Zen, Hammond, Hog, D.va.

How is a hitscan beam an uncertain source of damage ? It works simply, as long as your enemy is behind your crosshair and in range he gets damaged…

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it stars with 60dps. Unless you have 100% acc that is litterally the lowest damaging weapon in the game.

Along with that it has ramp up and a limited range.

the damage is 100% happening but its not certain damage (if the enemies just run out of the way then what do you do?)

Pharah is a flight hero, that is the reason her damage is uncertain, its meant to be used at range. She has no hitscan or close range weapon becuase she is meant to be played at ranges

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That’s beside the point, what’s important is that as long as you aim well, you can follow up on the damage you dealt with your secondary in an efficient way.

Also, it might be the lowest damaging weapon in the game but once you charge it, it shreds.

And don’t misunderstand me, I’m not trying to say Symm is a better Pharah, or that she is stronger. Just that she overall feels better because she can more efficiently confirm kills.

8

The rockets are strong enough. The problem with Pharah is that she has to expose herself to far more risk than most heroes in order to use them.

Give her tighter aerial mobility and I bet you’d have no problem destroying people with those rockets.

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That also, I completely agree. And I’d never wish for Pharah’s splash nerf to be reverted as it was indeed a big issue to console players.

As I said, I merely stated my opinion on why her damage could feel so unconsistant since her nerf. I mean, to this extent.

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It is actually super simple logic. Say you get in a team currently, what are the chances you run into a hitscan on the enemy team? There are potentially six of them. Under 222, what are those odds? A potential of 2, at best.

Second of all, we need to dispel a fallacy. McCree does not counter Pharmercy without his ultimate. Neither does Soldier. You need burst to get through the healing. Ashe or Widow are better choices. Heck, Hanzo is objectively better than McCree at all but dive bomb ranges.

In other words, Pharah will be running into far less hitscan mains. She should be able to play around hitscan of substantially less skill. I am not sure what rank you play at; however, if you are like most of us, the atmosphere is basically “our hitscan need to deal with it.” Heck, even in OWL it took awhile to see Dva or Ana consistently do their jobs in the MU.

What I am trying to say is even if you run into 2 competent hitscan, well, first of all, they are at a disadvantage because they are running double hitscan. But furthermore, they need proper support. And I do not believe that will happen because a lot of DPS mains will be “filling” and they are obviously going to be awful at it.

You can no longer run sustain comps, either. So that helps her.

Like, here is the better question, what got worse for Pharah? She is less likely to get a Mercy. That is literally it. Everything else is better.

You can literally use her as a hitscan check. Run Pharah and see if they can counter you. If yes, swap to your preferred hero. If no, stay on Pharah and dominate.

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Broken? As in overpowered broken? or broken as in actually broken? possibly even unplayable? There’s a drastic difference.

100% agree, she needs to reworked. The only way in mind to fix her without buffing PharaMercy.

Why not just rework Mercy instead of Pharah?

Because it took them 4 iterations just to get her (mercy) to a “stable” spot. I’d rather them not spend an entire year on one character, again. They wouldn’t have to do that with Pharah, as you just remove flight as her primary mechanic and they can go all out with her kit. And yes flight as her primary mechanic is holding her & Blizzard from doing anything to the character. Besides nerf-ing her into the ground.

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Based on what?

The fact 5 of the 6 slots can be occupied with hitscan heroes?

Fat chance of role lock benefitting Pharah. Mark my words, her pickrate will stagnate further.

Clearly someone who doesn’t play her often.

1 Like
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It’s a likely outcome of restricting what players can pick, as not everyone is good at the same characters in each role. A decent Pharmercy pair on most maps would only lose to either two decent hitscans or one really good Widowmaker, and the chances of either of those happening at most ranks is pretty low. Even at the upper levels, there’s a strong chance of ending up with two players who are only at that level because of close-quarters or projectile damage characters and thus can’t answer Pharah.

2 Likes
14

I am probably going to start picking her a lot more because of 222, though.

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Well best of luck to you, you’re really going to need every ounce of it you can get.

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We shall see. If I am wrong, I will happily eat crow. But I am quite positive this is a substantially better environment for Pharah. Especially the long range variant of her playstyle which is more my speed.

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As I said earlier :

Let me rephrase it :
Be it against Pharah by herself or PharMercy, there is no - and there has never been - a situation in which you want more than 2 dps in your team.

Also, the term hitscan designates weapons and abilities that touch their target at the moment they are shot. So scopped ana, Baptiste’s M1, Hammond’s M1, D.va’s M1 all fall in this category.

Sure, a lone hero doesn’t counter a duo, we agree on that. Now let’s dump Zen and Mccree against PharMercy and see what happens.
Also fun fact, Mccree has the potential to kill Pharah before she can shoot two rockets.

Damn that’s funny because imo McCree is the best counter to Pharah given his insane attack speed.

To this I can only agree, sure there is the possibility that nobody on the enemy team is a proficient hitscan player. But given the current state of hitscan heroes I highly doubt that. That might be the most valid point you made.

What are you talking about ? That’s the exact opposite, you’ll play with dps of your rank, so even if they aren’t dps mains they’ll be in the right place for their dps gameplay.

EDIT : Also, 2/2/2 does call for people to learn to flex in the same role, like they did in different roles. For example besides Pharah I’ve been working on my McCree, my Tracer, Ana, Baptiste, Orisa and Zarya so I never feel like I can’t do anything in a game.
Just think of it the same way and if you plan to play dps in 2/2/2 just make sure you play well at least 3 complementary heroes.

Broken as in malfunctionning, not op. At.all.

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That is just a difference of opinion. I believe triple stacking is inherently more powerful than 222.

Yes, but an Ana or Baptiste are not real threats to Pharah based on their primary fire. If you have one of them and 2 hitscan staring up into the sky, you already won.

Stay at range, his fall off is way worse than you would think. Give him a try. I see a lot of parrots claiming it, and I watch a lot of high rank players try it and, well, you said it yourself, you basically need them discorded and if your other healer is hitscan, they aren’t healing. It strains the enemy team quite a bit. Pharah opens the door for your other DPS to shake and bake, baby.

I personally believe hitscan is the most reliable way of taking Pharah out. I do not trust the Dva strats too much. And barriers go down fast against Pharah. She needs to be pressured, imo, to be invalidated. Otherwise, she can just stay safe and accumulate that damage over time.

I mean your tanks and supports might be DPS mains trying out new heroes to dodge queue times. They are not going to understand how to play into a Pharah. For instance, I am a Widow main, right? I actually do not know how to dive her as Winston. Not joking. So you will get some DPS playing Dva and not understanding how to take her out.

Nah, I am going to one trick Sigma and Baptiste. I do not have time to learn ratchet characters when I am playing off role.

19

Well, all previous META don’t agree with you.

Let me disagree, just look at the top tier support players (even in OWL), they all have moments when they shoot an enemy. And the reason is simple, it’s a huge boost to your team chances at killing a target.

Think about it, the more people shoot at the same target at the same time, the less time it takes to kill it, and the less time its team has to protect/heal it.

Most of the time it takes 1 shot from Ana or Baptiste to help confirm a kill. And a kill means less pressure on your team, more time to heal, and actually less damage to heal.

If you don’t believe me have a look at this amazing Baptiste player explaining how to efficiently play him.

D.va can sure harass Pharah but that’s not really why she counters Pharah. Her real use is to eat Pharah’s rockets, thus giving her team loads of space to deal with her.

I do agree that like Bastion or DF, Pharah needs to be actively countered if you don’t want to get stomped. And that’s a real design issue imo (and one of the reasons why I’d really like to see her reworked).

Well, imo you should. If you actually know how to prevent Winston from diving you. You then know what to do in order to prevent Widow from escaping you if you play Winston. Because you know Widow’s most efficient way out.

And that’s exactly why I have absolutely no issue dealing with Pharahs myself. Even playing Baptiste. I just know where she’ll come from, when, and how to place myself to just deny her.

Then the issue comes from you. You know what to do but refuse to do so, how is that not your problem ?

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Pharah just need 1 good hitscan to make her useless. There is no way she gonna dominate 2-2-2.

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I have no idea what that links too, but I mean… Triple tank and goats immediately come to mind. Both of which crushed 222 metas prior. That is not really the point, however, 222 is here and we need to get used to it.

OH, I agree, I will be shooting at Pharah a lot as Baptiste. I just do not really believe my teammates are capable of it and I would not really fear enemies running those two heroes.

Ah, I genuinely did not know that. Because I do not play her.

I do understand that part of it. I am just not sure when to engage. I am really bad at engaging.

I never said it wasn’t.