The problems with symmetra and torb

Since these two heroes dont have that much of a big playerbase to talk in the forums, i wanted to make a post explaining what are the problems with their current kit,

Starting with Symmetra

Initially, a lot of symmetra players were excited for the rework, because they thought it was going to geniunely improve the hero, but after seeing it, a lot of us were severly dissapointed on how much of a massive flop it was, it even made the heros stats drop

The primary fire

Symmetra is meant to be a DPS, Yet she still keeps the ramp up mechanic her lock on beam had, The reason why the lock on ability had this ramp up mechanic was to balance it out and to give people time to escape, since you dont want a lock on ability doing 120dps initially, It was a way to balance it, But for some reason, they still kept it, Which means that symmetra needs to remain zapping an enemy for 3.2 seconds to do any kind of normal damage, And while this doesnt sound so bad, consider that the hero has neither mobility, nor survivability, and has 200hp, Meaning that a hero with no ability to sustain themselves, has to enter close range, where they dont have the ability to retreat if something were to go wrong

The Secondary Fire

Simply, while the secondary fire is probably what got the best out of all of her kit, there is still one problem, We traded piercing orbs for a faster moving orb with AOE, but, the area of effect is simply a joke, It does not cover anything at all and barely gets any use,

Its also suposed to be symmetras primary attack method against quick heroes, But consider that you take arround 1.2 seconds to charge the attack in the first place! meaning that, Not only that bloats your Time To Kill to a whooping 2.4seconds, That is ASSUMING, you land ALL those orbs, If you were to miss another orb, Your TTK now jumps to 3.6seconds and that is Incredibly BAD for a so called DPS

The teleporter

Simply, teleporter in paper sounds like a good ability, But its not, First of all, Its impossible to use as a way to escape for yourself, Since it takes 2.8 total seconds between the initial animation and the deploy time, In that amount of time, every hero has already killed you, its simply too slow, it was adversited as “Save your teammates from a grav” But its simply too slow to do that too,

It was also meant to act as a incredibly powerful tool to transport your team into locations they previously couldnt reach, And while this sounds good, this means that symmetras only value, is tied to her teammates, if they dont use the teleporter, your pretty much throwing from how useless you are, Not many people EVEN have F bound still!

The teleporter Also has multiple limitation factors that damage its abiltiy to be used as a prediction dodge (as in, you know something is coming, so you throw a TP early to be able to escape) Lets list them all

  • The initial cast time means you have to be 2.8s ahead of whats going to happen
  • It has a SET hp, and it can be destroyed
  • if you place it in an “unvalid” location, it will be destroyed automatically and wont be refuded (This has gotten me killed MANY times)
  • It has a set active time, Meaning that, the enemy team can just wait it out, or you have to time it so that their attack happens in the exact timeframe when your TP is up

Simply, These are too many limitations for a single ability, Personally, i propose to Make it have Infinite active time, and keep the rest as is, that would already make it a much better ability,

The turrets

While the turrets also were one of what the best out of the rework, One huge loss happend, The quantity, While it may seem much better to say,

150dps with a 30s cooldown (10 per turret)
180dps with a 60s cooldown (10 per turret)

Consider that, Most of the times, symmetras turrets were placed in packs of two, Dealing 60 DPS, and spreaded arround the map, Or if you wanted to use them as a scouting tool, you had 6 turrets you could use too, The lack of quantity of turrets, and the reduced total damage means that you cant much ground with them to sucesfully hold an area, its almost mandatory to use a turret bomb to get any kills with them, and turret bombs arent really that useful because you have to get to high ground with tp, wait 13 seconds, then get in position, place the 3 turrets, and THEN put tp on them, which then will get destroyed instantly

The Ultimate

The ultimate while it may seem strong in the first place, it suffers from the exact same thing, orisa does… beeing stationary, and orisa has the better shield because she can relocate it, Symmetras shield as good as it seems on paper, Can simply be stepped through, and boom there goes its entire value, the ultimate to be used effectivelly also requires your allies to do the classic shield dance, and usless your an orisa main, most people especially in the lower ranks, havent dominated or even posses this skill, rendering it useless

The Conclusion

  • Symmetras kit is too unreliable to use herself, She does not have the survivability or mobilty to set herself up to use it,

  • Symmetras kit is incredibly team reliant, its almost as if the entire hero was designed arround a OWL-Like team where everyone is sitting literally right next to eachother, willing to cooperate, and hearing eachother, shotcalling, etc Which, is Not a realistic enviroment of play,

  • another problem with the hero, is more on the side that, They literally completly removed the old version, and i mean COMPLETLY, none of her abilities work the same, she even went from a Defense support to a Offense DPS (Which isnt even a dps because her damage is absurdly limited) To even her Skillset beeing different, going from a very gamesense oriented hero, more on the “900 IQ strats” Hero to a hero that requries such a perfect degree of accuracy to even Match what another DPS can do in half of the effort, Considering as well that teamwork is a Literal REQUIREMENT to playing the hero (similar to sombra) and that is a bad design, Teamwork should make the hero better, Not be literally required to play them

Now, Lets swap onto our dwarfy boi

Torb suffers from very similar problems to symmetra, that i will go into detail now,

The Primary fire

The primary fire was buffed and recieved no “Bad” changes, But it still remains a incredibly hard proyectile to land, due to its aiming Arc and its projectile status, even if you were to land it, the reward is not nearly as good as the effort it takes to use it,

Hanzos proyectile is a very good example of this, His is just as hard (or even easier) to land as torb, but you can 1 shot people with it, Torbs however? does the exact same damag as mccrees gun, That is twice as easy to land

The secondary fire

The trade they did for the secondary fire, similar to pharah in a way, was to reduce its damage, but increase its firerate, But again, just like pharah, They missed one crucial detail,

In order to land those shots, You have to take your time to aim, since its a projectile, you have to take your time to read the movement of the enemy player, and then shoot them, Which is the exact thing they did with pharah too, Therefore, The extra firerate is rendered Useless, as most of the time, spamming will lead into missing most of your shots, and the damage nerf just makes it worse

The hammer

The hammer no longer has a prupose, its almost inconvinient to bother to repair your turret, as most of the times you´ll throw it in high ground, and you´ll have to walk all the way up there yourself,

The turret

My belief on this is that the devs overcompensated for what they thought would be a massive buff to the hero, the easier deployment of the turret, and while i can see why they thought that, it was a big mistake

The turret was meant to acts as torbjorns reliable source of damage, provided he could keep it up and positioned correctly, But with the current version of the turret, and its new cooldown mechanic, the turret remains on cooldown most of the time, Giving torbjorn problems to get a reliable source of damage out, The reduced HP on the turret also acts to boost this problem,

The modified placement mechanics are also a problem, the “you cant place a new turret right now” mechanic is incredibly absurd, clunky and annoying, This can lead to situations when you misplace your turret (Since it doesnt tell you where it will land either) the turret takes one shot, and now your forced to get another 10s cooldown to replace your turret in a good spot

Another problem with the placement system is that the turret always comes out backwards, meaning that it will take an extra 0.5 seconds to start shooting since it has to turn, this may not seem like much, but having good turret placement is very important…


Overload essentially acts as torbjorn only useful ability, and its tied to a gigantic 12 second cooldown, which im pretty sure is one of the longest cooldowns ever in game (alongside rez, of course)

Overload Does everything, It boost torbs speed, boosts his firerate, his defenses giving him extra HP, And that is an inherent problem with this ability, It doing everything means that,

  • Using it as mobility to escape means you are wasting the damage buff and defense buff

  • Using it to tank an ability means your wasting the damage and speed buff

Its essentially a very “Press E and w + m1 your way in” Ability, But even then, there are some problems with its core concept,

The extra firerate, as i explained before, is almost useless unless you use it for spam damage, You need to carefully track your targets to land those shots,

The extra defenses as armor, while useful, are rendered rather useless due to the large critbox he posseses, Which will only get worse due to the current armor nerfs, It almost feels like his 350 HP state is what his initial kit should be like, since he dies so quickly with his mere 200 hp,

The mobility is good…But it doesnt do much

Another problem with overload is the animation lock, For the first second of the duration, you remain stuck in the animation of you rising your arms, therefore that first second is useless, and if you were to use it as intended, by rushing in with your secondary fire, The last second of the duration will as well be spent reloading, so 2/5 of your best ability are worthless

Molten Core

Molten core, while a strong ability in paper, is also very weak due to some simple reasons

the lava pools dont cover enough area, Hammonds mines can essentially render an entire point useless, due to their spread, that you can easily adjust via your height, But Torbjorns molten core lava can barely cover the entraces of the point alone,

And tied to that, The ultimate is very easy to avoid…following the example, you have a pool of lava in front of the point, but this isnt doing much, because you can simply use mobility to skip over it, (which hammonds mines would kill you anyways) or you can literally walk through it as most of the times it wont do enough damage to finish you off,

i may edit this thread later and add a re-rework version of them of how i would have done it, but for now, ill leave it here. thanks for reading my wall of text


Can only speak for Torb, but I’ll offer my rebuttal.

Rivet Gun
Primary: Was fantastic before the buff, and is now even better. It’s no different than any other projectile weapon, and is pretty fast. Any projectile weapon takes practice and will be less accurate by its nature. You’re not going to do well against a Pharah at range but you can actually harass a Widow pretty well. You’re also discounting something huge, which is that it has no damage dropoff.

Secondary: I don’t know where you’re getting the “take your time and aim because of the projectile” part. If you’re using the secondary at a range that the projectile speed makes any difference then you should be using the primary.


This should never have been used in the first place. Its sole purpose is to repair the turret. They left melee damage on it basically because “why not”.


The new turret is so much better than the old turret. Being able to throw it and set itself up is amazing. If you’re spending most of your time waiting for it to come off CD then you’re not putting it in very good places. Rules of thumb for the turret (if it’s not behind a shield) are put it somewhere the enemy snipers can’t negate it, and in a spot that makes their team have to fight in two directions.


Yes it’s a long CD, but it’s meant to be saved and used sparingly. It’s not something to pump out every time its up. You’re also essentially arguing that it does so many good things that you can’t make use of all of them every time, which I don’t see as a negative.

Molten Core

The new Molten Core hecking rules. I’ve won games with it so many times at this point I’ve lost count. If you’re doing a 1 to 1 comparison with something like Hammond, I’ll point out that you can easily cover that much ground with MC, and you can’t remove it by shooting it or just having Rein walk through it with his shield up. The real difficulty is getting it around shields, which means that it can sometimes be a suicide run to use it.

Personal experience, people tend to jump arround (especially squishies) and you have to take time to land your shots, otherweise you will miss, No this is not the same with tanks, you can spam them

Even when placed in a good spot, it will most likely be taken down as soon as the enemy pushes…belive me, i put it in good spots, but it either

  • doesnt get much value behind them or limited, since its positioning is mostly meant to look at the point only and not cover more ground

  • Dies instantly as soon as the enemy team push

But the large amount of this it does also contribtutes towards its gigantic cooldown, leaving your hero to be completly reliant on this single ability, that has a very long cooldown,

Are you placing your turrets near where you’re going to be and spending a lot of time repairing them?

You also shouldn’t be reliant on Overload. It’s there if you start taking damage while you’re in the open, or getting harassed by a flanker, or need to escape, or need to burn a tank that’s too close, or need to counter a ranged character, or reset your turret target. The fact that it can do any of those is good, so I don’t get upset that it doesn’t do all of them at once, or that it has a longer CD.

Ill take some screenies of some spots i like to put it in later

But with torbjorns large and wide hitbox, that is much bigger than the rest of the DPS, he tends to die very often and im forced to use overload to run or to keep myself up,

i try to cycle the cooldown with my turret to keep myself not defensless nonetheless,

I would actually really like to see that. Most of the Torbs I see in-game place their turrets in the same spots they used to before the update, so I’m always curious to see where people are using them now. I’d be willing to do the same when I get off work.

some examples are here, i couldnt get ALL the spots due to camera angles

its easy to throw the turret into highground now, where it might be more useful, i know that much