The problem is Brigette can do EVERYTHING

General Discussion
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She has a passive heal with Inspire.
She has a burst heal.
She has a stun.
She has a shield.
Her burst heal also gives armor…
Her ult gives 100 armor and ramps up, meaning if you dont kill her quickly-- you’re screwed.

Her flail-shot combo can delete squishies and constantly stun your tanks.

I’ve said it before. The problem isn’t that she counters flankers. Its that she was made to counter an ENTIRE STRATEGY

Close-range fighting and burst damage. AKA-- dive.

Now. Lets look at all the heroes who NEED to get close to either fight or do their jobs.

Doomfist.
Sombra.
Tracer.
Genji.
Reaper.
Mei.
Dva.
Winston.
Reinhardt.
Moira[?]
Lucio[?]
Ana who isn’t burning down that shield anytime soon and has 0 mobility.
Zenyatta who can only spam orbs at her shield.
Mercy, who can only GA away [but to be fair that’s with any matchup :joy: ]
[not including sym, since she’s getting reworked]
Another Brigette.

Who does that leave?

Junkrat.
Pharah.
Hanzo.
Widow.
Bastion.
Soldier.
McCree.
Orisa.
Zarya.
Roadhog.
And Torb…he himself needs to be close to do damage but if you’re playing Torb you’re pretty much babysitting your turret.

There’s 26 heroes in the roster. And out of those 26 only TEN are viable against Brigette.

But lets take abilities into account.

McCree is one of the slowest heroes in the entire game and with Brig’s shield he can’t do anything to her. So unless he burns down her shield before she gets to him-- he’ll get stunned deleted by her combo.

Orisa has fortify, which can guard against Brig’s stun, but unless she’s already using it-- it won’t help her. She is one of the tanks who I think does okay against her.

The other 8 can either burn her down or stay out of range.

This means that Brigette can either delete or harrass EIGHTEEN out of 26 heroes. Now lets be realistic.

Not a lot of people are good at Hanzo and even less are good at Widow. These heroes are very strong right now but the fact remains that they are not easy to play. The odds of you having a good Hanzo or a good Widow on your team who can actually contribute enough to justify the pick-- are few and far between judging by all the “QP DOUBLE SNIPERS!! >:[” posts you guys make.

So that leaves 6. Six heroes who you can play reliably against her. Six out of 26.

And if you still dont agree, lets look at the other supports.

Mercy

+Can heal.
+Can damage boost.
+Can fly to teammates/high mobility.
+Can rez.
+No real cooldowns.
+Can always heal.
-No DPS
-Helpless without teammates.
-Rez leaves her vulnerable.

Lucio

+Can heal.
+Can speedboost.
+Can boop.
+Can DPS.
+High mobility.
-Low healing.
-Low DPS.
-Limited range.

Zenyatta

Can heal.
Can discord.
Can DPS.
-No self-heal, only shields.
-No mobility.
-Slow primary fire.
-Slow healing.

Ana

Can DPS.
Can heal.
Can burst heal.
Can sleepdart [which is basically a stun], but is hard to land.
Can block healing.
-No self-heal.
-No mobility.
-Hampered by shields.
-Low-healing without grenade.

Moira

+Can DPS.
+Can heal.
+Can fade for a quick escape.
+Self-heals through her primary.
-Low DPS.
-Limited mobility.
-Can “run out” of healing.

Brigette

+Can heal.
+Can burst heal.
+Can DPS with a combo to delete squishys.
+Can shield herself.
+Low cooldowns.
+Can stun every 6secs.
+Can give armor through burst heal.
+Can give permanent armor to everyone, herself included.
+Self-heals through her primary.
-No mobility.
-Needs to brawl for her passive.
-Short range.

Look at everything Brig can do compared to the other healers. Moira and Ana can also do a lot, but Moira suffers from low dps; can “run out” of heals and has to manage her cooldowns.

She does too much. She’s doing the job of every category at the same time. DPSing when her shieldbash and flail-shot are up, acting as an off-tank with her shield and armor, and she also has the highest burst heal in the entire game.

And listen. I LOVE hybrid heroes!

I loved Sombra when she came out: A DPS with supportive abilities.

Being a fusion of two classes isnt the problem. The problem…is she can do the job of all 3.

Dva and Zarya: Tank heroes who can do some major DPS.

Zenyatta, Sym, and Moira: Support heroes with abilities to help the team but can do some decent damage.

Brig is the only hero in the game who can heal, off-tank, and delete a squishy.

Something has to give.

Her low-cooldowns.
Her permanent armor [with movement speed buff for some reason??]
Her stun.
Her knockback.
Her passive-healing.
Her DPS.

something.

But the problem is that by themselves, her numbers arent that impressive. Her DPS is low. Her passive healing is low and can only be done while dealing damage. Her shield is small and only protects her.

Yet you have to remember-- these things by themselves arent the problem, its when you put them all TOGETHER that it becomes an issue

It feels like a ton of people think Brig is ruining the game by forcing this meta where only 8 heroes are really viable against her. By forcing this meta where you have to either poke or spam and there’s no such thing as “contesting” anymore.

I really don’t want to say that, but I’m starting to feel that way too. If its not getting stunned by her, its getting spammed by Hanzo.

I dont think her by herself is whats “ruining” overwatch. It’s everything she does and what she enables. And the way she FORCES you to play.

There’s only 1 other hero in the game that MAKES you switch otherwise you’ll lose, and that’s pharah.

But Pharah can’t heal.
Pharah has no shield.
Pharah cant give armor.
Pharah cant stun you.

That’s the difference.

Junkrat, Hanzo, and Pharah shouldn’t feel like the only worthwhile DPS.

I really don’t want this to be a negative thread, but this is the first time I can think of where I actually agree that a new hero is really taking the game balance into a bad place.

Because now we’re going to need an even more overtuned hero for 27 to counter her. And somebody stronger to counter them, and so on and so on. Power Creep. This is what it looks like.

We went from healers who could deal some DPS, to healers who gave us that too but some other abilities to help, to Brig who can pick up the slack for any role on the team.

Please tell me I’m not the only one who sees this. :confused:

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Phew, long post.

Inb4 the “Just play Junk/Pharah” crowd get in here, she definitely has a small window to take her out before she pummels you to death if you’re unfortunately to meet her up close.

I think part of the issue is just that, unlike other heroes where the duel can have ebbs and flows, against Brig you either delete her immediately or she deletes you shortly after.

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Her ultimate is actually underrated in terms of absorbing combat damage

30 armor per second is more than 30 HP/s of healing since armor counts for more depending on the type of damage. It’s likely equivalent to 45 HP/s which almost comes close to valkyrie.

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Which is worse than Lucio’s healing since she needs to hit people to activate it. Even then, by the time she can activate it, her teammates require much greater amounts of healing that Brigitte can’t possibly compensate for.

Which only works on squishy heroes and almost doesn’t do anything on tanks, especially those under fire.

Which is incredibly easily telegraphed and the only way it’d work is if you were stupid enough to either get closer to her or let her get closer to you.

Which is tiny, doesn’t protect anyone else besides herself, is easily broken with ANY focus fire, and doesn’t even have the same dimensions as Reinhardt’s, meaning that she can’t even defend from more than one angle.

Only 75, and it decays incredibly quickly.

The speed bonus is basically pointless since she needs to stay around and armor up her teammates. Even then, I’ve seen plenty of Rallies go horribly wrong as they attempt to use it during the middle of a team fight, even though it only works before or after one. It’s only 100 armor, and a good couple of characters can more than easily break through all that armor without much effort.

By which you mean only Tracer and Pilot D.Va. Everyone else has enough HP to get out of there.

Only works once every 6 seconds, and requires being at 5 meters to do anything, and in that amount of time, the enemy has to be REALLY stupid to not be able to do anything against her.

“Oh no, it’s a character doing the exact job that they were specifically designed to do from the beginning of her career, that’s a problem!”

Doomfist can charge up from a distance and has the options to do so safely before making an attempt.

Sombra can shoot from distances that outrange Brigitte and STILL do damage to her. Not to mention the decently long range to Hack means she can be at a safe distance and take care of her like that as well.

Brigitte was very specifically designed to counter these two.

Brigitte was also designed to counter these two as well.

Not even remotely close. Lucio has no fall-off on his gun, and Moira can fight from 21 meters with Biotic Grasp or 30 with Coalescence. Neither of them are going to be that close to her.

Both of these two are ALSO long-range fighters, so they never have to be close to heal people or hurt enemies.

Objectively wrong right there.

No, she isn’t. She’s only capable of extremely little and does very little at the same time/

Which is outclassed by ALL damage characters, including the newly reworked Symmetra with almost double the range of Brigitte’s flail.

Which is outclassed by actual tanks since they have more health and more ways of creating space for their teammates, some of them even being equipped with better range for that matter.

Which is on a 6-second cooldown and is worthless on tanks under fire. Her healing is outright horrible for this fact alone.

Too bad that she can barely do the job of ANY of them. That’s the trade-off.

-Minimal healing output
-Horribly tank-like qualities
-Can’t delete anyone unless they 155 or less HP and is also standing within 5 meters of her person.

I suggest nerfing the community to make it so they can’t complain this long anymore.

It’s only as much of an issue as the continually complaining community-say that five times fast-that doesn’t like when characters can do more than one thing at a time. She isn’t that big of a problem, you’re just choosing to make her worse than she actually is.

That’s also the community’s problem, since they’re just enslaving themselves to an overblown popularity contest. Who cares about something as subjective as ‘competitive viability’ when counters are constantly flying everywhere? If you can play really well as such and such character, why be forced to switch to something you can’t do as well?

No, Hanzo is the infinitely bigger problem right now. Brigitte was never a problem to begin with.

She was designed up the game. Don’t blame her for your lack of ability to adapt.

As per usual, it’s really just the community holding everything back when something good finally happens to the game.

First of all, Brigitte is Hero 27, the next one is #28. Second of all, that’s not how the game is going to proceed. Other characters will end up being tuned in various ways to improve the overall experience, it just requires people spend more time adapting and less time crying on the forums.

“Oh no, better not let healers actually be able to defend themselves, that’d be terrible”

No, you’re not the only one. All kinds of people who hate everything about Overwatch are in your minority, and a lot of them are even more degenerate as well.

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There is no power creep. Brig is easy to counter and is not as overbearing as the forums make her to be. Proof of this is the fact that she is falling across the ranks. Hell, she is barely top 6 in some ranks and not even top 6 in a large portion of them.

Add in the fact that despite Brig being a counter to flankers like Genji, they still see healthy playtime. She is not preventing any heroes from being played, she is not dominating the ladder, she is nowhere near as bad as people make her seem.

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Since inspire is probably up you can add 16/s to that, meaning its probably better than valk in terms of raw active survivability for the team. Thing is most heroes can do more than 60 dps, and its her ultimate.

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-Eyeroll-

Anytime someone says this I know to just disregard their whole post.

Your job is healing, not tanking or dpsing. healing.

No, you do not need to delete every 200hp hero who cant outrun you.

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Brigitte isn’t a pure healer, she is a support/tank hybrid. Mercy is a pure healer, you can unroll your eyes now.

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Too can’t that she can’t delete ANYONE with 200 HP then, isn’t it? 155 damage combo that ONLY works at 5 meters. Other characters can do greater amounts of damage from greater distances without using ANY abilities, but nope, gotta complain about the extremely short-range, easily telegraphed, and easily avoided combo that wastes an entire kit, just to use.

Even then, you’re still coming off as ignorant for not letting supports do anything other than heal. They’re allowed to do more, people just need to quit with this negative stigma. She can’t even damage enemies well or do tank things well.

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They did say she was a support tank hybrid so… she should be kind of tanking at least a little.

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Thing is most heroes can do more than 60 dps

No, not really. Actual sustained DPS numbers over 10 seconds once you work in the weapon accuracy are just somewhere around that if not even lower.

and its her ultimate.

For how good her regular kit is, it does too much. Armor should peak at 75 not at 100.

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IT’S NOT 5 METERS

IT’S 6 METERS

shield bash has a range of 6 meters, not 5 meters

her primary has a range of 6 meters, not 5 meters

for most 200 hp heroes, her combo is a death sentence since they won’t be able to get out of range in time.

Other characters can do greater amounts of damage from greater distances without using ANY abilities, but nope, gotta complain about the extremely short-range, easily telegraphed, and easily avoided combo that wastes an entire kit, just to use.

Yes you’re right, she should’ve given a pocket sniper as an ability /s

You’re literally a troll

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To be honest they should probably just nerf her burst potential, but its a catch 22 of if its nerfed than Tracer can slip past the combo, which I only assume its exactly 150 is because its intended to be a hard counter to Tracer. They themselves have stated they are keeping a close eye on it.

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It’s an ultimate ability, what were you expecting? It barely does anything for that matter, seeing as how it requires people to actually gather around her to do anything and only do so before or after a team fight. It’s worthless during one.

Even then, lowering the amount that she can provide even further than where it is now is just a bad idea. It already does so little, why bother making it do even less?

The bash actually IS only 5 meters, and getting that close is unlikely to happen in most scenarios, even fewer to do so without consequence.

100% wrong. But hey, just go ahead and dismiss people as trolls for actually pointing out the massive holes you’re leaving in your sloppily-designed ‘arguments’, and I use the term loosely.

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Tracer should slip past the combo

Just forcing her to recall should be enough. And if she has any damage on her, it means death sentence. Brigitte gets her cooldowns back much quicker than Tracer gets her recall back.

For how easy that thing is to land, it should not invalidate her existence entirely, as it does right now

It literally means that a silver Brigitte can render a GM Tracer useless relatively consistently

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She is fine, kinda the jack of all trades, master of none, just adapt instead of whining for nerfs, sorry a new hero was added, it happens, learn how to deal with being countered Genji main.

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Her highest winrate in the game coupled with her decently high playrate across all ranks still suggests she’s overperforming for a low-skillfloor low-skillcap hero.

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Oh, boo-hoo, Tracer finally has a counter! Godforbid that ever happen. No, the precious poster girl needs to be completely unopposed and continue ruining the game, right?

Seriously, get over yourself. Hard counters exist for a reason, it’s not a problem unless you choose to make it one. Tracer needed a serious counter or a colossal nerf, and since nobody on Earth would agree to nerf her, that only left the counter. I honestly believe that Sombra, McCree, and Roadhog should be given just enough to their kits to also be counters to Tracer, simply because of how short their time countering her actually was.

First of all, skill is entirely subjective.

Second of all, WHO CARES about something meaningless like win rates? People always over-inflate win rates for characters that have either been changed up or just introduced into the game. Even then, win rates by themselves are worthless in terms of determining whether or not the character needs a nerf or otherwise.

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It’s an ultimate ability, what were you expecting? It barely does anything for that matter, seeing as how it requires people to actually gather around her to do anything and only do so before or after a team fight. It’s worthless during one.

It barely does anything? How deluded are you? It’s fight winning. It has extreme snowball potential and the synergy with Zen and Zarya is broken.

Right now, in OWL, when she ults, the fight is won in 63% cases. That’s the same stat as Zarya when she gravs and Zarya is basically the highest one overall.

Even then, lowering the amount that she can provide even further than where it is now is just a bad idea. It already does so little, why bother making it do even less?

Because it doesn’t do too little. It takes forever to wear off the armor from Zen and Zarya. It servers as a giant damage reduction during the whole fight.

The bash actually IS only 5 meters, and getting that close is unlikely to happen in most scenarios, even fewer to do so without consequence.

It’s not.

100% wrong. But hey, just go ahead and dismiss people as trolls for actually pointing out the massive holes you’re leaving in your sloppily-designed ‘arguments’, and I use the term loosely.

There’s no holes

You’re just completely misinformed or straight out deluded

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And her falling pickrates across all ranks and the ranks where the heroes she is supposed to be countering are seeing more playtime than her says otherwise.

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