DPS generally only make those threads if they’re killed by a Tank, a Support, or some kind of AOE/turret/spam.
And no, “taking skill” doesn’t end it. Even Ana once got complained about when her shots (which are super precise when not healing) did 80 damage.
She really isn’t a dive hero in the slightest and she provides nothing for them.
You say AOE heals but how does she proc it if her team dives? They are nowhere near her and the absence of Lucio in the comp means she can’t even reach them quickly.
She was literally designed as a brawler, which is why she does so well in GOATS. Her entire kit literally does not synergize with Dive, with the exception of Armor Pack
The ONLY metas defined by the supports were 3 Tank, and Moth
OG 2 Tracer/ Winston/ Lucio, Dive, Bunker, Goats, Double Barrier, GravDragon, Double Sniper
None of them were defined by the supports
Again, you can literally just look at the team composition. It was the same composition that was played well into the Playoffs.
The main reason for it is that it was easier to swap in one character (Brigitte) for one other character (Tracer) because Dive is what the teams were used to and had practiced for over a year.
Also, at the time, everyone thought Brigitte was trash unless it was in a Triple Support composition. So she was rarely played in any other composition.
Yeah let’s just ignore the Lucio nerf and the tank nerfs.
Zen was the support that dive partially built on, not mercy.
Actually, no. It was originally Mercy.
Dive Comp (not “Meta”, but Comp) has existed since the game was released, back when Zenyatta was useless and the only viable healers were Mercy and Lucio.
Even if you mean Dive “Meta”, it started with Ana. The original Dive Meta comp was Lucio/Ana, in a holdover from Triple Tank.
If the ability to nullify or severe mitigate the damage dealt by others, and then deliver that same damage output plus have significant utility (crowd control, armor, stuns, etc.), packed into a single a character over all others, would this not be considered problematic?
This is just a supposition and is not meant to counter your argument, but rather an attempt to enlighten you towards the view of others in this thread.
Triple and Quad tank was built around the same concept that GOATS was built around and that is that tanks can mitigate so much damage that nothing can really kill them. The tanks enabled those strats.
Dive was again enabled by Winston and DVA being the strongest tanks in the game (note how Winstons buff then kicked off the Dive meta).
Hanzo is probably the only non tank hero to ever have a meta created around him. He made people play Zarya to combo with which made people play Rein. This is the type of meta formation that never happened before.
Even the current meta is forced by Orisa and Sigma. You cannot play hitscan into that and Widow is not great and Brawler DPS can get close so that is who gets played. The meta warped around Orisa and Sigma being the best and not the other way around.
There is no support that has the same damage output as a DPS.
Yes, that would be. Which is why I agreed that release Brig was OP because that’s pretty much describing her from then. I also acknowledged rework Mercy was yoo, and she didn’t even hit all of those criteria. (The damage specifically, its just that the double instant rez made her utility so off the charts good that she didnt need the damage.)
There isnt a single support that comes close to all that right now, nor has there been besides those 2 instances. As was pointed out, no support approaches DPS levels of damage. The only one currently that sniffs at it numerically is Moira at mid-tiers, and thats artificially boosted my chucking easily healed damage orbs into opposing groups. And even then, she lacks a different bullet point, utility, that all other supports have.
For. The. Last. Time. Stop. Saying. Moira. Is. Overpowered.
She’s extremely easy to kill if you can aim, her fade tells you the direction she went, her healing orb is negated by most of the DPS on the roster, and she has NO utility outside of heal and damage.
If she had utility she’d be in the meta far more than just ONE season. This entire meta is built around the double shield tanks, Moira is a result of that AND Doomfist being in nearly every game.
TL;DR is she is not OP in the slightest. As soon as this meta ends, she will not be meta anymore, as she lacks utility. If you don’t like it, there’s an uninstall button for you waiting.
she literally is in this meta, look at the stats. most picked hero she does top end dps stats and top end healing stats, so basically gives you the value of 2 characters in 1 all while requiring the lowest amount of aiming and game sense. its killing the game.
The problem with supports is that there are so few of them that it is easy to master them. It is also the most vital role because players suck so much at not dying.
Top end DPS???
She’s literally only doing more damage than support heroes, not counting Zen.
Plus she has ALWAYS healed this much, she hasn’t had a huge boost to her healing since August 2018
Like on average she heals 13k
There are 16 heroes on average doing more than that.
Now there are FOUR of those people per team who are able to do that.
Of course Moira is meta anyways; You can’t play Ana/ Baptiste because of Sigma/ Doomfist, Zen’s major strength is null with the barriers, Mercy doesn’t heal enough. That leaves you Moira, Brig, and Lucio. Not many people are use to the new brig, so there ya go
9k damage, 24 elims. 4 e/d ratio is ridiculous for a low skill support.
baptiste does 5k damage 12 elims, and he has to actually aim his weapon and has no mobility/escape. his only utility is on an ult length cool down.
Elims literally do not matter?
I could do 10 damage to someone across the map as D.va, and be rewarded with an elim.
Solo kills and Final blows paint a much better picture; since you KNOW that those were either done fully by the person, or at least with enough evidence that they were alone. Moira is at the bottom for those, because her damage comes from trash damage that might get an elim point because she hit them for 20 damage trying to gain healing resource
Also Baptiste’s numbers are lower in terms of elims, because he literally doesn’t NEED to shoot people to do his primary job of healing. He doesn’t need to shoot people to reload.
Of course his utlility is on 20 seconds, it literally negates people dying? Like he has the second highest healing, and an ability that blocks death, yet Moira who does less DPS than Sombra is the “op” one?
Also Exo Boots?
They need to start making heroes with skills that works as utilities, it’s the only way to balance everything.
They keep busting out new heroes with very gimmicky skills and without fail, it either throws off the entire game or is outright useless until tweaked and is actually sleeper OP.
The only hero that was perfectly balanced on their initial release was Ashe, even with the buff to her reload speed she’s still pretty balanced, albeit completely outshined by other heroes.
Release Brigitte didn’t hit all of the criteria, either. Even then, she was still in the bottom 5 for Elims, Damage, Solo Kills and Final Blows.