Actually it didn’t.
It sorta helped GOATS actually be a even though you couldn’t speed your team in for a fight; but when engaged the enemy couldn’t speed away.
So it really didn’t hinder GOATS. It changed how initiating fights went.
This is awkward because most high rank teams and eSport teams ran Lucio/Zenyatta. They were the go to supports most of the time.
I don’t know. I didn’t experience that.
Goats was easy to counter after all these nerfs. that’s why I didn’t get why they enforced 2-2-2 nonetheless, especially when devs knew Sigma was the next hero to be released and that he would just help bunker to be even stronger.
I guess it doesn’t matter now. Role queue is here and it didn’t help the game get better in any way, plus it created more issues that most of us predicted from the start. 
And that’s due to implementing 2-2-2 without adjusting for the GOATS patches in the slightest.
Dive lived before and after mercy. Dive used to be lucio zen.
What killed dive was Brig countering the two most important pieces of dive. Tracer and Winston.
well yeah because in goats you got transcendence all the time which dramatically rose the heals zen gave per game
when six people are in a grav with rein, brig, and zarya cleaving into it you can be sure that the heal numbers will be massive
to defend his claim… it was because Zen original damage orb with lucio speed.
so it was still because Support was OP.
then overtime Lucio got rework, Zen got Nerfed and Mercy got nerfed.
Ana and Mercy were also used a lot in Dive at the beginning of the comp. At the time, that was 100% of the healers.
Dive was going to happen no matter who the supports were.
I meant without ultimates, basic kit wise 3-Tank and Goats had the highest healing, then Bunker, then Double Barrier, then Dive, GravDragon, and Double Sniper with the lowest all tied with Mercy/ Zen at 90hps
Actually, no. As I said earlier in the thread, Brigitte didn’t kill Dive. She joined Dive.
For a brief time, Zarya became meta and that created Graviton Dragons, but after that got nerfed, teams went right back to Dive.
What killed Dive was GOATS.
I’m not sure I agree with this. Maybe she joined it initially to stop it but to say she was part of Dive wouldn’t make sense.
Her kit in no way synergizes with anything about dive. And replacing her with any of the healers weakens the dive. Replacing her with any of the dps was redundant for obvious reasons.
Dive is probably the worst kind of comp she could join. GOATS killed dive, yes but it was a comp that became powerful because of Brigitte
Theirs one problem with this. First were is the syngery between Moira and the tanks. Ana, Mercy, and brig, and you’re forgetting Lucio as he was the best support in dive before Mercy. Moira doesn’t have any synergy with the tanks. So what gives a support begin a meta pick without synergy with the tanks. Something seems wrong hear.
I really hate how we have meta’s and they are centered around certain heros.
I just wanna play man
Supports are just one part of the problem, not the sole problem, but they’ve been able to enable a dominant and entrenching strategy with Tanks and Tank combinations
Barrier tanks have existed since the start, Sigma’s introduction hasn’t really changed that, rather, the introduction of Sigma and the 2/2/2 change, more or less evolved a playstyle that’s been heavy on mitigating damage that was through the GOATS meta.
Mercy was a part of it, briefly, as was Ana, so yeah, you’re right on this.
I hate the whole “healers enable metas” comment. No kidding, that’s their damned job. Everyone freaks out if a support is able to kill things. Everyone freaks out if they can defend themselves against flankers. They have to be able to do SOMETHING.
It has NEVER been a thing where you start a team with “we have to pick this support or we lose, build everything around it.” EVER.
Double Barrier: “Moira is OP right now, she’s everywhere!” (Teams are close quarters and bunched, Moira is picked in RESPONSE to that hecause thats her bread and butter.)
Dive: “Zen is OP he’s everywhere!” (Team is spread way out, and divers need a damage boost help to get quick kills, Zen is picked because he fits exactly those things.)
Double Sniper: “Mercy is OP! She’s everywhere!” (Again people spread out, plus easy to rez long distance picks, Mercy picked because she fits it perfectly. AFTER she got fixed after her rework, where she was legit OP.)
All these picks are in response to what your team is running. As a support main, I 100% wait to see my team comp before picking. If your pick is completely based off of other picks, it is inherently NOT OP. The 2 times a support was OP was rework Mercy and release Brig. That’s it. (Possibly early stage Ana as well, i wasn’t around much back then.)
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You can literally scroll up and see the team composition. It was Winston/D.Va/Brigitte/Widow/Zen/Mercy. Brigitte was used in Dive, primarily because she could do damage, AOE heal, and provide burst healing from a distance. I don’t know how you can say her kit “doesn’t synergize” when it literally does.
Even later during the Playoffs, she, Hanzo and Tracer rotated as the three DPS used.
Brigitte made it a stronger comp than Slambulance by being traded in for Roadhog, yes. But once that was figured out, any healer could take her place. By the end of GOATS’s life, teams were already starting to replace Brigitte with Ana or Baptiste.
Launch Ana and Mercy 2.0.
But yes, they were exceptions, and not the rule.
Strange…
I remember when the forums told me dive was Dva’s fault and several people even said the same about goats. Lol
The forums’ general attitude is: “Any character that prevents other characters from dying is the problem”.
People like to kill things, and shooting things that don’t die feels bad.
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True dat. On the other hand people don’t like getting killed and therefore make all this OP-threads.