you guys are really wasting your time… just leave it be
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You should practice what you preach.
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Nobody’s going to be able to prove that they did or didn’t find the tactic used. It’s practically unquantifiable and it’s reasonable to even ask for statistics. There’s literally no way for you or anyone to prove a statement like “I found this many players using this strat” true or false, so why even bother? When I and many others make this kind of claim, it’s not to prove a fact but to speak from experience, exactly like those who say the opposite.
Arguing over whether somebody else has found something used in one of their countless games by any number of the countless players in those games is just distracting from the actual meaning of people’s point: some people found the tactic used and they have something to say about it.
“Do you have proof that I didn’t?” was a rhetorical question. It’s impossible to provide a proper answer.
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You should cut the attitude. I’ll report anyone from when Lithy here makes their comment for harrassment and spam because that is really all it is.
Not to be that person but.
Spamming or Trolling
This category includes:
Excessively communicating the same phrase, similar phrases, or pure gibberish
Creating threads for the sole purpose of causing unrest on the forums
Causing disturbances in forum threads, such as picking fights, making off topic posts that ruin the thread, insulting other posters
Making non-constructive posts
Abusing the Reported Post feature by sending false alarms or nonsensical messages
Numbering a thread, IBTL, TLDR, or any other fad statements
If a player is found to have participated in such actions, he/she will:
Be given a temporary or permanent ban from the forums, depending upon severity
I’d say you should cut the attitude of going into threads you dont like and contributing nothing to the thread. Makes it easier for both sides since no one gets harmed or banned or reported.
Because what Ive seen from your posts can be reported under spam.
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Then don’t claim this?
Exactly…
Ha. I find that hilarious because context suggests something else entirely. Allow me to remind you:
Unless you’re proving that players are being dishonest based on your personal experiences which by itself is ridiculous, you were very much not talking exclusively about your personal experiences.
Then don’t call people liars based on personal experiences…
Halo also responded with a rhetoric then because again, your claim can’t be proven either.
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I’m not trying to prove anything. I’m saying that I found many players who did it and that it was very annoying for me and others involved in those games.
I might not have repeatedly said “in my experience” or “in my opinion” or “well, for me” but that doesn’t mean that my statement has ever stopped being from a strictly personal perspective.
I never called anyone a liar.
I recommend not just responding to individual lines in a post… It’s very easy to misunderstand context when you do it.
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I don’t dislike the threads. I always appreciate a good discussion. It is when threads turn into toxic fights that I feel like action needs to be taken. I don’t want any more bickering on the forums.
I am reporting people anyway.
Ah I see. Apologies. That being said, I’d recommend not making arguments based on personal experiences.
You don’t fight fire with fire.
You literally
keep going into threads
and ask peeps to stop discussing about Mercy threads while not contributing anything.
Your posts itself can literally be contributed as spam and reported since you dont add anything to the discussion and you dont want anything to be discussed since you keep false reporting peeps on what you dislike.
If you want and appreciate a discussion explain and actually contribute something, not shutdown something you dislike.
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Polite discussions. This is what would make a lot of people actually appreciate these threads and take the time to respond politely back. Posts like these make me happy because they are polite and provide constructive feedback to people and/or to the game.
Alright, my honest opinions on this whole Mercy thing:
I honestly don’t see the big hoo haa. Mass Rez was cool. Our current system is ‘eh’ but does the job. Our current ultimate is very meh, and they should change that since it kinda feels like a suicide button with no value to the game. They shouldn’t have nerfed the healing. But I think it’s silly to make a million threads about it. I am sure the devs listen - they just don’t feel the need to respond. And the more toxic threads are made, the more likely they are to ignore it. I can understand why people want it back and I respect that, but I don’t respect fighting over it.
There thats better an actual discussion and reasoning.
Tbh, it really doesnt surprise me why peeps are making threads here and there because, its been like that since Jan if im not mistaken. Its just that everything was vacuumed into that garbage bin (megathread).
All they came up with in half a year was to just nerf her healing which is ironic and doesnt really make much sense since shes literally supposed to be a main healer and a pure healer at that while not contributing much in other areas aside from healing.
I think another reasoning it gets toxic is because of the frustration as well like what I mentioned above. Megathread where all ‘feedback was taken into consideration’. Pffft, 10hps nerf. So its not a surprise why people are fighting about and are upset with how they handled her.
Do I think its gotten out of hand? Sure and yes I agree. Am I mad at them? No, because I understand why theyre frustrated. Horrible balancing for their hero, gave her a rework nobody wanted nor asked, made her OP and made more people hate her, then gradually nerfed her into making her horrible to play (Rez) and making her ult having little no impact at all.
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As a Mercy main who has played since launch, I do think mass rez went away partly because of the pro scene, and that 5 man rezzes were very rare, but I have more fun with Mercy 2.0 (obviously the peak was her first change, when your rez was 10 seconds during valk )
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And to be completely honest, I thought the initial rework wasn’t that bad! With the res-ult-res combo and the 60hps it was still kind of viable. Now it’s a shell of it’s former self.
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Following that logic we could say that rez should be removed, something that won’t happen (Blizz already stated that it will always be part of her kit), supposedly because not a single ability in this game require a dead teammate for using it.
I’ll say that rez doesn’t belong on E because it forces her to stop doing her job, it forces her to be freezed instead of keep moving, it rewards stupid game, and it’s simply unbalanceable.
Considering that rez, as Blizz stated, will always be part of Mercy’s kit, the point is: where we place it? As her E that makes her whole balance such an impossible mission that not even James Bond could complete it? Or as her ult, where almost nothing was tried but it was overall balanced?
“Just a bunch of Mercys hiding” Seagull, the pro player and creator of the hide and rez stereotype
“Not a matter of her kit but a matter of her broken SR system” Taimu, another pro player and creator of the hide and rez stereotype
Just a few hints. A bunch is not even a half of the playerbase. Even the creators of the hide and rez stereotype have admitted that it was not such a huge thing. Yes, it was an exploit and some people took advantage of it. Did that need a huge revert back to all the worst designs in all Ow’s history, that were removed/changed during alpha (valk), beta (stationary rez) and season 3/4 (trash 50 hp/s healing)? Not at all.
“Insanity is making the same mistakes over and over again expecting different results”
Reverting Mercy back to valk, stationary rez and trash healing was straigh stupid. Now we are repeating the past. Having stationary rez, Mercy is not fully mobile, as she needs to break her own game for each rez. Also, she is forced to hide or die, exactly as it happened during beta. Valk is obnoxious to play and garbage design. E rez contradicts every single aspect of Mercy, turning her only real focus currently into leaving people to die next to a corner in order to rez them, freezing herself in process (immobile).
Just a reminder from Jeff: Mercy’s focus is supposed to be healing and mobility. Well, before this revert she could play that way, and it was a great way to play her indeed. Now, it’s impossible. Current Mercy’s focus is going dps and rezzing people, since her healing is simply awful, and Ana can outperform her both as consistent and burst support. She only exceels at pocketing/chasing Pharah/Widow.
So, the point with the hide and rez issue was simply fixing an exploit from a tiny minority, not wrecking the entire game for an entire year.
Do you know that such logic would perfectly fit with the hide and rez thing? Anyway, even the creators of the hide and rez stereotype have admitted that it wasn’t such a generalised thing, just an exploit for juicy SR boosting. That only needed a few QoL changes (and maybe an E ability in compensation for those nerfs) but never a revert back to all the garbage of the past. Valk, stationary rez and trash 50 hp/s healing belong to Mercy’s earliest past (specially the two firsts). They should never have been brought back to the game, they were better dead and forgotten for good.
Playing since before Ana’s release. Hiding Mercys spotted: zero. Not me, not anyone else. Stupid dpss hiding, ulting and not focusing the Mercy who was two steps aside from her team, trying to save them and perfectly in LoS spotted: more than zero.
Okay, you are saying Mercy’s mass rez had no counterplay, despite she wasn’t picked at all at pro ranks because they knew how to play around that ult (countering it, the only problem is that such counter was not set on stone, so even an ape could see it). Anyway, let’s travel to the present and make some magic. Suddenly mass rez is Mercy’s ult, exactly as it was. No counters? Play Hammond (aka Wrecking Ball).
Straigh false. They were “only a bunch”. Stop lying and using old fashioned myths as your only argument please.
Played since before Ana’s release quite often. No hiding Mercys spotted but plenty of hiding dpss. Hide and rez was an oversized myth, just an exploit from a very tiny minority, overblown by some whinny streamers who simply hated Mercy and didn’t bothered to play around her. That was the perfect excuse for Blizz to rework her. I’ll show you more excuses now:
This is why valk was so great for the game that it was entirely removed and replaced by mass rez, which was healthier and better by all means.
Funny thing even he admitted that hiding and rezzing was a lesser problem considering that it was “a bunch of Mercys hiding” and that he preferred mass rez over valk and E rez.
Okay, but people are using old fashioned statements and stereotypes for their own arguments just because they fit with their narrative. Something smells rotten in that logic… I can sense double standars.
Funny thing, back in those days Mercy could CHOOSE to play focused on healing/mobility without hiding. Now hide and rez is mandatory, and Mercy is focused only on dps and rezzing. Oh, and don’t forget about the titanic amount of complains that that dev update created, just the origin of the 10 Mercy’s megathreads, with players of all types and ranks complaining, Vale included.
Tbh, having more characters would create more space for new counters. Hammond’s ult would be a great and cheap counter for mass rez in any form, and it seems that new Torbjorn would be another counter for her. Also, we would get rid of having uncounterable combos like grav + dragon, so we would avoid toxic metas like that one.
Yeah, the same as there was an entire dev update about why valk was entirely removed from the game and replaced by mass rez during alpha (with videos included), and why stationary rez was removed from the game, turning it into instant because it forced hiding or dying, and why trash 50 hp/s healing was buffed to 60 because it made Mercy the weakest support in the whole game, being outperformed by Ana both as consistent and burst support.
What a pretty surprise, isn’t it? We are just repeating the same mistakes from the past, who could tell us that doing the same mistakes from the past would have the same results as back in the past?
If for coordination and teamwork you mean pressing Q x6 at the same time and not being able to kill the enemy Mercy, I’m sorry, but I have potatoes in my kitchen with more coordination and teamwork. What is NEVER going to be healthier for the game is having a character that rewards players for dying next to a corner, and that’s how current Mercy works.
I’d love seeing bad game punished again, and that’s one of the reasons of why E rez and valk must go forever and never ever return to the game.
Well, I think it’s better to undo a defeat once in a while than erasing the mistakes of your team for playing unskilled and out of position each 30 sec.
Oh, and if your team was not coordinating and they were playing bad, even if you rezzed them, defeat was assured. Sometimes you could use mass rez, get a huge one and see your whole team annihilated without a single ult being used in the whole fight but yours.
First of all, I think you are considering only the chance of mass rez coming back exactly as it was. What the most of the people are wanting now are changes for that ult (aka nerfs) and a real E ability (not her ult anymore). That means a new Mercy, so yes, I doubt that anyone could predict what would happen, but if mass rez is nerfed, that would allow more counterplay or make it harder to pull off, so it won’t be just a matter of “kill the Mercy”.
Anyway, I can’t see any problem on having to learn some focus, that’s how every PvP game works as soon as there are supports. You won’t focus that blasted tank who is being healed and will never die. You will focus the support, because then his teammates will start dying. Finally, you will take care of that fat and unkillable tank who has no heals now. This is how it works…
Funny thing, people has made polls in and out of the game, and the results are a consensus. Out of the game, the majority of the players preferred mass rez over valk and E rez, even tough some of them wanted changes to it. In the game, people baited the mass rez’s tophic by using the Mercy’s “cute” spray and when people started talking about how hard that achievement was, they said that they had it when Mercy had mass rez (unbiased talking, as you can see). Well, then EVERYONE started saying how much they missed mass rez.
In addition, you are ignoring that a lot of the people complaining about Mercy and even calling for a revert (arkward word, considering how revert Mercy is nowadays, she can’t be reverted even more than how she is now) are not Mercy mains.
Of course it was boring, and you were playing her wrong by doing such bs. Tempo rezzes were the way to go, and that required you to focus on healing and mobility, not going afk behind a wall as any current Mercy is doing now.
Mercy never needed a revert back to all her forgotten mistakes. They had to go, and everyone were happy. Valk and stationary rez don’t belong to Mercy. They must go for everyone’s good once more and be buried in the fiery hell where they belong.
If the Mercy chose the incorrect moment for rezzing the team, defeat was assured. Let me just bring you some examples:
1- You are trying to keep your team alive. Suddenly, Lucio and Soldier die. You rez them and the “FIRE IN THE HOLE!”. Your rezzed teammates die once more, and you too. You failed.
2- Why not, let’s bring some hide and rez bs now. You are hiding. Your team dies. You fly to rez them when “It’s high noon!”. 6 bullets. 6 kills.
3- You are trying to keep your team alive, but Soldier and Widow are killed. You rez them. Immediately, Rein is comboed and killed. You lost your main tank, so your team has great disadvantage now. You failed.
4- Let’s go with more hiding bs. You are hiding. Your team dies. You go and rez them, but they are splitted, so the enemy team chases them one by one effortless. You failed.
Great description of E rez.
Yeah, I remember well how I punished that Pharah for hiding, ulting and killing my whole team while I was running in middle of the missiles, without being killed because that skilled player decided to focus Rein’s shield instead of me. Mass rez really punished bad players. Valk removes all skill from Mercy, and E rez is just hide and rez, nothing else. It rewards bad positioning and poor skill all together.
We have spent an entire year and two months turning Mercy into all her stereotypes, but now all of them are mandatory. Yeah, making Mercy what she should never become was the way to go for sure. That’s why repeating the past is so great. /s
That old fashioned statement was deeply flawed and not specific at all. Yes, Mercy has been reverted. Now she is alpha Mercy. Also, if:
Bring back valk + E rez, again with stationary mode + revert healing to 50 hp/s + accidental bunny hop =/= revert
then
Bring back mass rez with changes + completely new E ability + revert the reverted healing (60 hp/s once more) + keep the rest untouched =/= revert
Otherwise, admit that this rework is nothing but the biggest revert in all Ow’s history. Stop missusing words.
Finally, I’ll show you a really specific statement from Jeff:
“We will NEVER add Deathmatch to Overwatch”
That happened before he added Deathmatch to Overwatch, so I’m sorry if a generic and confusing old statement from many months ago seems not like something that should be considered now, knowing that there are lots and lots of people with streamers and youtubers (like YourOverwatch) claiming for mass rez to come back and others (like Stylosa) saying that Mercy is too weak, needs changes, but she is too hard to balance in this current state.
It’s funny how stupid would be surrendering in middle of a fight and let everyone to die just for wasting your greatest weapon instead of using it when the enemy would be in a great disadvantage or at least equality if you used it.
I’ll give you an easy example. You have Rein and Bastion. Bastion has his ult ready but they two are taking heavy fire. What you should do? Letting them to die and hope that somehow they won’t continue taking that damage after your rez? Or trying your bests and keep them alive as much as you can in hopes your team and your surely ulting Bastion will win thanks to you holding the situation?
This example was my first potg with Mercy on comp, and I only let Roadhog to die (he died inmediately after my rez because he sacrified himself against the enemy Rein, so I could run away and rez those two fellows).
Yes, in both cases you aren’t doing your job. Anyway, hide and rez was “only a bunch of Mercys hiding”, not even a half of the playerbase. It was an exploit from a very tiny minority, completely oversized. That bs only needed a few QoL changes to punish it, never a revert back to all Mercy’s mistakes from the past.
Oh, and it’s somewhat funny how Mercy’s purpose right now is going dps and letting teammates to die next to a corner in order to rez them from a save and hidden place. It’s somehow funny too how Mercy has no reason to engage now and can fly behind the clouds while trying to do her usually hard work for free by holding a single button in afk mode.
Yeah, I guess it’s better having uncounterable combos that define entire metas like grav + dragon did. It’s better to have no counters in a game about counters. Anyway, valk is the worst ultimate in the game, and E rez is still Mercy’s real ultimate.
About counterplay? Take a look to Wrecking Ball’s ultimate. Now take a look to new Torbjorn. No, that’s not witchcraft, those are mass rez’s counters. Imagine now with some tweaks like little cast time, LoS, etcetera, etcetera.
Sigh…
“Just a bunch of Mercys hiding” Seagull, pro player, creator of the hide and rez stereotype and flat earther it seems
“Not a matter of her kit but a matter of her broken SR system” Taimu, another pro player, creator of the hide and rez stereotype and flat earther I guess
And that was a great reason for not reverting rez to that mechanic. Anyway, I’ll point out that that mass rez you are talking about was stationary, like current rez, and people was complaining exactly about the same things that people are complaining now, aka dying while rezzing, being forced to hide, needing babysitting, etcetera.
Yeah, hiding is always obnoxious, no matter the character, but Mercy could at least choose to not hide, so hiding was a very lesser problem, as even the stereotype’s creators have admitted. That means that she only needed a few QoL changes and never a huge revert back to all her worst designs from the past wrecking the entire game for an entire year.
Too easy.
1- Enemy Mercy hiding? Yes? Right, let’s go.
2- Kill the enemy team
3- FIRE IN THE HOLE!!! (just an example, you can high noon too)
4- Either wait for the Mercy to give up the fight and loose or fly and rezz her team. In this case…
5- Blow them all and get your victory and potg.
7:55-8:11. Visual explanation
Also, mass rez sure rezzed you teammates, but that never assured you that they were going to survive anyway. They could die right after the cast for many reasons, specially if the enemy them reacted well to your rez.
Interesting false flagging. You are not giving reasons of why, so I’m sorry if you don’t like my point of view, that’s all I can tell you. Anyway, that’s not a reason for flagging people, not me, not the next, not the next to the next, etcetera. That attitude is not good, you know?
Okay, that’s better. Now let’s see.
First of all, this revert was not wanted at all. There were complaints since day one, but Blizz, instead of listening and acknowledge that they had gone in the wrong direction, kept tweaking a new version of Mercy which was simply flawed. At the beginning, she was op beyond imagination, so she needed to be toned down. However, a lot of people didn’t want that design to be kept, as it has huge flaws in its own core, as it happened in the past. Valk failed, stationary rez failed, low healing failed. Repeating those mistakes was not the way to go.
About the complaints, I can tell you that I saw other Blizz’s games communities, and excepting for the community fighting, things were not so different before. Heartstone had a horrible meta because of a bad designed card, and it took an entire year to see an update from the devs apologising for that card, and then, it was overnerfed. In Heroes of the Storm, Nova was reworked due to an exploit of her talents and completely killed, and it took more than a year (and the game having internal changes) to see her being reworked and turned into her once more and balanced properly (she died as soon as she got reworked, unlike Mercy).
On the forums, the point is that toxicity has grown a lot since the revert started. Mercy’s playerbase was vilified and harrassed, and even some streamers encouraged that attitude. Now people are fed up, and not only the Mercy mains. It seems that the number of Ow’s players has plummeted around a 7%, and that’s because of things like this revert, its management, toxicity and other things. People are really fed up. I can understand that the devs would appreciate peaceful conversation and constructive feedback, and that’s something that must be considered, so even if you are fed up, you don’t start insulting people (just an example), but the point is that if the devs are not making their players happy, but quite the opposite month after month, even making them feeling insulted sometimes, they can’t expect everything in pink colour.
TLDR (at last): Hide and rez was not a generalised problem, just an exploit from a very tiny minority as even the stereotype’s creators admitted. That only needed QoL changes, not a revert back to old mistakes from the past.
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you’re kinda reaching out pretty far. a quick priest may have to stop to cast a long spell, it’s not out of the ordinary.
Well, Mercy is not supposed to be a priest, she is a doctor and a combat medic, and even if she was a priest, Zen is the closest to that and he can ult and have both his orbs activated at the same time, while Mercy must actively stop doing her job for 2 seconds.
Also, the point is that it breaks Mercy’s work. Somepeople like to complain about how Mercy hid for her mass rez, while usually she only took cover during an ult storm. Finally, remember Jeff’s definition of Mercy’s focus: healing and mobility. There is no use in having an ability that forces you to stop healing and moving, when you are supposed to do exactly the opposite. It contradicts the main concept of Mercy, at the same time that it wrecks her entire balance, turning it into something impossible.
Immobility is the opposite to mobility. If Mercy is supposed to be focused on mobility, immobility has no placement in her kit.
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I meant a priest in a dungeons and dragons way, a cleric, a battle field medic. If a wizard can have a spell with long cast time so can a cleric
and furthermore, what you said about what Jeff said mercy is a mobile hero. if he came out in a press conference tomorrow and said, um…mercy is no longer mobile hero. so now what?
Let’s start from the top. Do you think rez belongs in the game? whether mercy should have a rez or any other character?