Because hiding is virtually the same for everyone? The only difference is how difficult it is to pull of successfully but that doesn’t change the fact that you’re still hiding, briefly not doing your role as your hero.
Quite literally doesn’t change the fact that they’re hiding but okay.
That was historically underpowered.
Besides, I don’t care for this argument because it really doesn’t hold much ground and doesn’t prove anything. I prefer to talk about fun and balance so how about we agree to disagree?
Easy, rez is what makes Mercy Mercy, so it won’t be removed. Even Jeff stated that people wanting it removed were naive and clueless about how the game works, so that point is completely out of the table. Anyway, yes, it belongs to her since it was there without any real problem for two years, whereas valk and E rez have caused only problems since they came.
In addition, what Jeff said about Mercy being a mobile hero was his toughts about what she was supposed to be, so that’s her goal as a character. She wasn’t supposed to be immobile and focused on letting people to die in order to rez them, that was supposedly one of the reasons that Jeff himself used for the revert.
Furthermore, I’ll ask you now one thing. What do you think that belongs to this game? Because if you consider this game a pure shooter, I’m sorry, but Sym, Winston and Rein exist. You have also Torb and Sym’s turrets that aim automatically, Soldier’s aimbot, almost every single ult in the game, that require no aim, Genji’s reflect which can turn your own ults against you with only one counter available: “just don’t shoot him”, and a large etcetera. I’m sorry, but Ow is very far from the typhical shooter.
It was the easiest thing to fix, it was nothing compared to other characters that needed help like Bastion or Mei. Just try some of these (only one or more, choose your combination):
1- LoS: no rez through walls
2- Little cast time (around 1-1,5 sec, the time her voice line takes): added counterplay
3- SR fixing: since hide and rez was simply an exploit of the SR system, nerf the rez’s SR to the ground and buff heal/boost’s SR, so you are now encouraging the players to engage with the team instead of hiding… unless they want to drop to bottom bronze.
4- Decay system with a high cap in order to stop both hide and rez and hide until rez is gone. This way an active Mercy will have her ult ready whenever she needs it, whereas a passive and hiding Mercy will be forced to duel 1 vs 6 for being able to ult, so she will surely die.
After fixing that lesser problem, and considering that with some nerfs she would be underpowered, just bring her a real E ability, as people were calling for. But be careful, a real E ability, not her ult.
The same goes for every ult in the game. However, if you wanted to master mass rez you had a very high skill ceiling unlike now, that you must dig to find it thanks to valk and E rez. Yeah, Mercy was and still is a one star hero, that’s not new (indeed now she is getting close to zero star hero because of pocketing being her only good way to be played).
What means being a one star hero? Easy to play, so you can know the character’s basics very soon and learn to play it quite easy. However that’s not saying anything about that character’s skill ceiling.
She never HAD TO hide, she only could CHOOSE to hide, those are different concepts. You are ignoring that hide and rez was nothing but an exploit by a very very very tiny minority in only some specific ranks, exactly as even some of the stereoptype’s creators admitted.
“Only a bunch of Mercys hiding” Seagull, pro player
“Not a matter of her kit but a matter of her SR system” Taimu, pro player
So, considering that a bunch will never be even a half of the playerbase, fixing hide and rez was the same as healing a scratch, that never needed open heart surgery.
Mercy was mostly played for tempo rezzes, not huge rezzes. That way she could play engaging all the time, keep her team alive and still make a great impact in the game, way bigger than hiding and throwing the fight just for a juicy SR boosting.
No one wants Mercy hiding, so my ideas are punishments for it. If it was a problem, why not fix it, now that Mercy has been already broken and almost destroyed?
I’m going to link back to this very well written post about “hide and rez” It was relevant then, it’s still relevant now: "Only bad Mercies hide & rez"
Hide and rez was the playstyle everyone encouraged you to adopt, Mercy mains encouraged other Mercy mains to do it, your team always encouraged you to do it, I recall the time where if you didn’t hide and rez you were considered a bad Mercy.
And why wouldn’t people use it? It got results, you got massive amounts of SR, it netted you an easy PotG, it gave your team a massive advantage in team fights, you could build it back up again incredibly fast (back when I mained Mercy my record was 30 seconds) and it was incredibly difficult to counter.
This wasn’t some fringe scenario overblown by some cackling villain with a plan to ruin the lives of every Mercy player, this was how you were supposed to play Mercy. Did you have to hide? No you didn’t but there was certainly no downsides to hiding.
Could Mass Rez have been salvaged? Maybe it could but Blizzard didn’t seem to think so and as such they have no plans to bring it back, so trying to justify an ability that won’t be coming back seems a little pointless.
I’m happy with the change, but it is completely hypocritical (if the reason is because of hide and resurrect) whenever we have Reapers doing hide & blossom like it’s going out of style.
You can completely negate Death Blossom with:
A barrier.
DM.
Moving away.
Stunning him.
Hacking him.
Bursting him down.
The only way to counter Mercy’s incredibly strong ult was to know exactly where she was at all times and have reaction times quick enough to kill the small, fast target zipping to her team from god knows where before she turned invincible and reset the fight in her team’s favour.
Every hero has three forms of counterplay to their ultimates:
Kill them before
Kill them during
Kill them after
Mercy did not have #2. You could not kill her during it. And for what it did, the fact that it didn’t have the same level of counterplay made it an exception to the “rules” of counterplay. I can headshot a Genji, a Reaper, a Sombra, etc. and I can stop their ult (yes - you can stop a Sombra ult and interrupt it. It’s a short cast time). But you couldn’t do that with Mercy.
“You kill her before she uses it” - is not a valid argument about counterplay to Mercy. That’s true for every hero. But every hero doesn’t have the ability to instantly bring back teammates. You could not stop her during it.
The forums (back in the day, oof) suggested adding some level of counterplay. Adding a LoS restriction. Adding a range restriction. Adding cast time. Removing invulnerability, etc. They suggested things. And were vehemently shot down.
Hindsight’s 20/20, I suppose.
I personally didn’t like mass resurrect. I didn’t find Mercy underpowered with it, but I didn’t find her fun with it. I had to play passively, and until I had my ultimate, I had little to no decisions to make. I like the level of decision-making there is now (i.e. when to resurrect, if you should resurrect, when to fly in, when to use Valkyrie and help sustain your team or go aggro on someone). I don’t believe it’s fun though and I think she needs some more work in the future.
But…this whole notion of “There was nothing wrong with mass res” is just wrong. There was. And when people offered a remedy to it, they were shot down by many of the Mercy mains that were vocal at the time.
You could completely negate mass resurrect with:
Shooting the vulnerable Mercy (the Only one left) before the resurrection.
Bodyblocking Mercy to keep her from getting to the spot to resurrect.
Hacking her.
Stunning her.
Bursting her down.
Saving an ultimate to use after the entire team is resurrected. (I’ve seen reaper literally sit next to someone being resurrected only to point-blank-one-shot-kill them right when their invincibility went away.)
Killing the enemies apart from each other.
Killing the enemies far apart (time wise) from each other.
Killing Mercy first.
Killing Mercy second.
Killing Mercy third.
Killing Mercy fourth.
Yeah, it goes on.
Yeah, that’s not true, but it’s okay.
Also, resurrect doesn’t have to be the version with invincibility, but I understand treating it like that helps your narrative.
That’s not the same level of counterplay as every other hero in this game.
Every hero has three forms of counterplay to their ultimates.
Your list is applicable to every hero. But you can’t kill her during it like you could with every other ultimate in the game. She is the only exclusion to it.
[edit]
Except Zenyatta. But that doesn’t bring back your teammates from the dead. And you can actually still kill them during it because there is some level of counterplay (i.e. biogrenade, still can be headshot, etc.)
aside from junkrat, not a single hero hides during ult (and the part you control during ult doesn’t hide either)
last time i checked mccree didn’t hide and then get a 5k through the floor, maybe mass rezz wouldn’t have been deleted if it only worked with line of sight to the rezz targets
In her small, fast moving hitbox, again you’d have to know exactly where she is otherwise you have to factor in time to react to Mercy along with TTK. Most of the time she didn’t even need to come in LoS.
Again, you have to know exactly where she was and you commonly got around this by gliding in from the high ground.
If you react fast enough and know where she’s coming from.
Ditto.
See first point.
Debatable, you had a short window of invulnerability where you had the chance to move out of the way, raise a barrier, activate DM etc.
Which is why before ulting you told everyone to stick together, even if you hooked someone out of range you could still rez the majority of your team.
See previous point.
This is where the hiding part comes in.
Ditto.
Ditto.
Ditto.
Nice refutation, I bet you win a lot of arguments with that one.
Played since before Ana’s release. Never hid. Never been told about hiding by anyone. Never told any Mercy to hide. Never accused of playing her bad.
It was very easy to counter indeed, and that’s why Mercy wasn’t picked at all in certain ranks, because once learnt to deal with the rez, she had no mid game utility, so she was really bad in comparison with other heroes.
“Only a bunch of Mercys hiding” Seagull, the pro player and one of the creators of that stereotype
No, sorry, hide and rez existed but it was only an exploit made by a very very very tiny minority, not even a half of the player base. The way to use her was tempo rezzes, that were infinitely more common than huge rezzes. Why? Because hide and rez was incredibly uncommon in comparison with how the playerbase played.
“No plans to revert her” Jeff before reverting every single aspect of Mercy back to alpha.
I’m sorry, but he never said anything about mass rez never coming back. I’ll tell you what that old fashioned statement meant:
We have no plans to bring mass rez as it was, remove her E ability (they didn’t revert her healing yet, so I’ll skip that part) and remove the bunny hop.
In other words:
Bring back mass rez as it was + no more E ability + revert reverted healing (60 hp/s once more) + no more bunny hop = revert
However, I don’t see anyone saying that:
Bring back valk (existed during alpha) + E rez, again stationary (like beta’s) + revert healing + accidental (not planned) bunny hop = revert (for some reason everybody calls this a rework)
Considering that people are calling that this a “rework”, then this formula is irrefutably right:
Bring back mass rez with changes + completely new E ability + revert reverted healing + keep the rest as it is =/= revert
Anyway, Blizz said that Deathmatch would be never added to Overwatch (they used the specific word NEVER, to the message was infinitely clearer). Know the result? Never say never. Deathmatch was added to Overwatch.
Or just use your resources wisely and wipe her and her entire team right after her rez.
7:56-8:11 Easy way to prevent/counter mass rez. You don’t need huge resources. Just kill her team, use an ult and force her to take this easy decision. To give up that rez and loose the fight and probably the game? Or to rez and suffer a team wipe, loosing the fight and probably the game? Now guess why Mercy wasn’t picked at top ranks.
The same as people are suggesting now and somepeople are trying to shut them down. Anyway, I never saw that kind of complaint, mostly, it was about her not having E ability, something that made her very weak in mid game.
Okay, you played her wrong. You could play her actively and agressive, never letting anyone to die, and switching from teammate to teammate without stopping your job for a single second. That was the way to go with her back then.
No, sorry, there is no skill at all involved in valk. In her basics, yeah but that’s nothing new, you had it before. And when to resurrect? Considering that you have rez each 30 sec, faster than when it was an ult, you will use it on cd as long as the teammate died next to a wall or a corner.
Huge problem here. Blizz has tried everything with this design and it’s a disaster. 13 nerfs in just one year! That’s enough to see that this design is pure garbage and will never work. Reverting Mercy back to valk and stationary rez was a huge mistake, and that never had to happen.
Yeah, we know the exploit existed, but it wasn’t that horrible nor hard to fix. There were other characters who needed more urgent attention than a lesser problem that only needed QoL changes. Indeed, the biggest problem with mass rez was how much power it had concentrated in it. That’s what made her unbalanced through ranks, despite being overall balanced.
Once more, some hints:
1- Number of tempo rezzes done >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> huge rezzes done
2- “Just a bunch of Mercys hiding” Seagull, pro player and creator of the hide and rez stereotype
3- “A matter of her broken SR system” Taimu, pro player and creator of the hide and rez stereotype
Finally, having to save your rez wasn’t bad at all, in fact that was what made her skill ceiling so high before. You had to take a lot of decisions, and depending on your good or bad judgement you could either win or loose. That’s way better than having a piece of garbage that you can press on cd and hide and hold M1 for example (now that tactic is useless because a single ape can outdamage it).
Also, why tempo rezzes were used so much? Do I have to remind you that Mercy was a single target support? What means being single target? You can only heal one target at the same time. What does that mean? The enemy can overload you and kill your teammates while you are trying to save others, even if you are a t500s Mercy. What does that mean? If you are being outplayed, you will have to think whether to use your ult or not for that situation. Anyway, you could replicate valk’s effects in terms of healing just with some skill, it never helped so much on that matter.
Finally, current rez is not build around that concept. Tempo rezzes are 2-3 men rezzes. That was the original rez during this “rework”, and of course, having tempo rez as an E ability was op beyond imagination, so they nerfed it to the ground. Now it’s hide and single rez, nothing else.
Current rez is 10000000% reliant on a simple and unevitable question: Where can I hide? If the answer is “nowhere” then you won’t rez in the open because then, go back to beta days. Why mass rez was turned into instant? Exactly, because being stationary she was a free kill during rez. There is no skill nor decision making behind that. Is there a wall? Go and rez. There isn’t? Don’t even think about it.
Oh, and now letting people to die in order to rez is the most valuable way to “heal” some characters because of Mercy’s pathetic healing.
That will happen… almost never. Anyway, that takes skill from them, not from you. You are only a sort of princess in mistress who needs protection while being completely frozen for two seconds, and even in the best possible scenario, you are letting your team without one support for that time, while they are using all their resources on covering you.
So you MUST hide and rez or being babysitted or die… or use rez out of fight, that’s a valuable option now too. Anyway, that doesn’t make up the point that E rez makes Mercy too hard to balance properly and contradicts her role as a main support, at the same time that it has become her only real focus, being “let people to die in order to rez them whilie hiding” her real way to go now, just because she can’t heal them.
![:eyes:](https://d74zh8edaijub.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/eyes.png?v=5" ":eyes:")
