The Genji changes are too drastic, in both directions

General Discussion
1

This will probably be buried or turn toxic really quick, as it usually goes in these forums, but here goes.

The experimental card changes are too drastic, in both directions.

The buff to all shuriken damage will reintroduce RMB spam meta, as if RMB wasn’t better than LMB in most cases already, and will once again make value on Genji extremely easy to get (not a good thing, the buff to RMB spread already made him significantly easier).

The nerf to blade hurts so many break points, too many in my opinion, beyond just hurting years of experience.

Some of the blade break points off the top of my head

Non damage boosted:

  1. Can’t kill a 200 hp hero with punch (before blade) → slash → dash.
  2. Two slashes will no longer kill a 225 hp hero (Sym/McCree), nor any hero being healed by something as little as a Zen orb.
  3. Slash → dash → slash will again no longer kill any hero healed by as little as a Zen orb, nor heroes such as Moira during ultimate, this combo was already inconsistent due to how the heal ticks work and did not always get the kill, this will guarantee 3 slashes required.
  4. Can’t punch (before blade) → slash a 150 hp hero (Tracer/baby D.Va) or Baptiste’s Immortality Field.

Damage boosted:

  1. (25%) Slash → dash now deals exactly 200 damage and will no longer kill anyone within range of a Lucio or Baptiste aura, nor those heroes as the Discord target
    Even with a 30% damage boost one may survive the combo based on heal tick timing.
  2. (25%, 30%) Can’t kill a Tracer with one slash, or a D.Va during remech.
  3. (50%) Slash → dash no longer kills a 250 hp hero.

There’s more, these are just a few examples, all in exchange for the RMB meta returning, which wasn’t fun to play, both as Genji and against Genji.

I’d like a more modest change to Genji’s kit:
Since LMB is just slower than RMB at close ranges, especially those that allow RMB to potentially hit two or more shurikens, I’d like only LMB shurikens to be made higher damage, 29-30, giving more reasons to use LMB over RMB:

  • At 29 damage per shuriken, the increase would potentially be a little too modest, since it’s unlikely to change too much in terms of breaking points unless one happens to land all 3 shots, but it would still have situational value over RMB more frequently.
  • At 30 damage per shuriken, this opens up more options, from QoL such as one hitting Sym turrets, to more breaking points such as 6 LMB hits (or 3 crits) into dash enabling the killing of 225 HP heroes, to enabling 1 LMB hit before blade to replace melee and chain into dash → slash to kill 200 hp heroes, assuming blade stays at 120 damage.

As for a change to blade, I’d much prefer another ult cost increase, another 10%-15% or so should reduce the frequency of blade up time, but this time for a worthy main kit buff, which in my opinion the last buff to LMB failed to do.
To be clear, I do agree that blade has a lot of value, too much is arguable because of how many things easily shut it down, from all the CCs to the fact that he can easily be bursted down, nano or not, but a nerf to blade’s damage is a drastic move that can quickly turn a strong ult to a pointless one, so I much rather have the ult be available less frequently instead, leaving it just as strong, but more valuable to use at the right time.

2 Likes
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I’m alright with the shuriken damage increase (everyone is already RMB spamming anyway) but I don’t think the blade nerf is necessary. People get really upset about nanoblade getting so much value but I think it SHOULD get that much value since it costs two ults, has to be coordinated, and exploits teams who don’t have the defensive ults or utility to deal with it. Even one knockback or stun can negate nanoblade entirely. It’s higher risk than people think it is. Even if that wasn’t the case, I don’t love nerfing the blade.

I’d rather my team picked heroes as though they didn’t want to be murdered by enemy Genji, not punish Genji for murdering when they don’t.

4 Likes
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Yeah, I think they should make blade more favorable to use on it’s own instead of making it need nano even more. Maybe upping the swing speed lightly could fix it.

110 does nothing but make both raw blade and boosted blades weaker, meaning boosted blades are more required. If we buffed swing speed, it retains it’s strength individually, but boosted blades are weaker since Slash + Dash is what made the boosted blades so much more preferable.

2 Likes
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Buffing LMB and nerfing ultimate by 15% is a horrible exchange. It doesn’t fix any of his issues and just makes blade charge slower than even sound barrier.

Genji’s LMB isnt meant to be strong, it’s meant to be a finishing fire if your target gets out of range, or an initiating poke to then dash + combo.

Genji’s problem is once he gets in, he doesn’t have the damage to finish the job. It has nothing to do with him poking enemies from far away.

Making his LMB stronger only makes him compete with Echo/Hanzo/Mccree etc, which he’ll be outcontested in no matter what.

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They should have just disabled damage boosting it imo

1 Like
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Easiest possible fix.

If people dislike “oh its inconsistent” just one simple rule added can fix that:

“Ultimate Melee Damage from sources such as Dragonblade and Primal Rage can no longer have their damage lowered or increased. They now ignore Armor and abilities like Fortify, but now can no longer receive any forms of Damageboost”

1 Like
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THANK YOU. You have no idea how long I’ve been waiting to see a SINGLE person make this argument.

I’m tired of the same cycle.

Genji mains cry about amount of CC and healing. Demand m2 buffs that do next to nothing to fix those issues. Because t

Rinse and repeat. July 2020 genji was a monster because breakpoints changed along with like 3 other massive buffs at the same time.

Its bonkers to me that a characters primary is this useless.

Can you imagine the rioting on these forums if mccree the golden boy’s primary fire was this unreliable and garbage?

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I have a better idea for his rmb. Make it:

Hitscan
90 dmg (not 30x3)
50% fall off at 10m
30% fall off at 15m
No more complaints about spam or not needing aim
Genji gets properly rewarded for skills.

2 Likes
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If only a single player is making said argument it speaks volumes to how it doesn’t solve the problem.

Genji’s primary fire being strong doesn’t do anything, because why run Genji for midrange lethality when you can run ANY hitscan, or Hanzo/Echo?

Not even comparable, people are rioting over his fan the hammer if anything.

Mccree is a close-mid range duelist, not a close range flanker.

1 Like
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Ironically at close range it’s practically hitscan, since projectile speed doesn’t matter when your target is that close to you.

The reticle has to be on the enemy for it to hit, it “not taking aim” was always such a stupid argument.

3 Likes
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so you just said he can do 180 damage on a hitscan shuriken.

bye.

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And the thousands of genji mains screaming for the exact same thing that never works out in the long run also speaks volumes.

His class/ role has nothing to do with it whatsoever. My point was obviously that if another equally popular characters primary fire was this garbage, they’d riot.

So what is the solution here dude? We keep buffing his m2. Genji mains come straight back to the forums and cry because they’re still getting CC’d to death due to being forced into hyper close range to do anything. Exact same issue as doom.

Its almost like that kind of playstyle was a bad balancing choice in a shooter. And sure, you can blame the CC for causing this issue, but it was necessary evil. And a lot of it has been nerfed across the board.

Also, if lmb was decent enough to actually get kills with within 15m RELIABLY, it would make a difference. The only time I see genjis getting those kills (even at higher ranks) are on static characters like hard scoped widows. His m2 was already good. Increasing his chances of hitting more shurikens before engaging will make his kill potential more reliable.

Can you honestly say you’re consistently landing all 3 lmbs on squishies right now?

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I mean ironically it sounds like Mccree’s gun but its stronger closer and weaker farther.

1 Like
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It doesn’t matter how reliable you make M1, it’d just force him into yet ANOTHER niche he’d get beaten at in an instant.

Literally, why pick someone like Genji at 15m for poke when you can pick Hanzo who can actually one shot in a shorter time frame?

Or Mccree who has tankbusting capability on top of midrange lethal damage?

Or echo who can melt tanks and dps alike?

He’ll just be outclassed in another niche.

Doom is a horribly designed character, you can’t compare the two. I’m a doom player and openly admit he’s garbage hero design.

Not the case, if the 29 damage shurikens work, then he’ll be able to cut through some pocket healing and finish his kills before its too late, allowing him to get in, get out, like a proper assassin hero.

The buffs are supposed to be for GM, not all ranks.

29 damage is exactly this, it allows good genjis to take advantage of the extra +1 damage to rack up the points, while slower and lower ranked Genjis wont notice.

1 Like
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He can do 174 on ptr now.

Making it hitscan will have smaller hit box, not spammy, has falloff, and require aim unlike his projectile (according to some)

All that for 6 more damage seems fair.

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Yeah i love those games where our mercy/moira keep dying to nano blade and say genji op! :rofl:

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And even with a slightly better m2, he’s still easily out classed at close range by all the characters you just mentioned hahaha. Echo can still blow people up without being on top of people.
McCree can throw out his busted flashbang and follow up on a kill with literally no mechanical skill whatsoever.
Hanzo takes slightly more skill than the other 2 but makes up for it with his overwhelming damage potential.

At least improving m1 bridges the gap slightly. I’m not saying it will magically fix all his problems. But saying m2 buffs will is just as stupid.

Why would just you leave it as is. Actually making genji an AVERAGE threat at midrange is better than nothing. Because outside of m2 range, he’s a joke to the point of you being able to almost ignore him entirely hahaha.

You could even look at other buffs like a slight increase to his deflect range so that he can actually counter flash (like he should on paper).

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That wasn’t really the case before the RMB spread buff, increasing it’s effective range significantly, and before that the fire rate buff (which was eventually undone).
LMB was buffed recently (10%), and the ult cost was increased (15%), if the goal was to make LMB more effective (as I’ve wanted for so very long) then changing LMB damage to be higher would be the way to do that.

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That’s not Deflect being weak [it needs bug fixes yes] its that Flashbangs hitbox is so massive.

Making Genji’s job workable is the intent, not to make him compete against tracer/doom/echo.

We want his assassination playstyle to work, thats the entire reason we want M2 buffs.

M1 buffs doesn’t solve any of that. The way he is intended to be played still wont work.

LMB and RMB were buffed simultaneously.

LMB buffs dont fix the issue, Genji’s combos not being lethal enough was the issue, he can’t get out until he kills his target, and when he’s mid-assassination attempt he’s already in a range where LMB is just not optimal, and it wont be unless it was just drastically better like it fired way faster than RMB, to at that point RMB would become useless.

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Mid-range fights happen, it’s silly that a knockback is literally the end of you as a Genji playing against practically anything, Soldier, McCree, Ashe, Echo and basically anyone else, even an Ana can quite easily duel you if you’re not right on her.