The game is WAY too team dependent

General Discussion
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TL;DCTR You rely a lot in other players over your individual skill more than other games, and that makes it bad in every functionality possible, INCLUDING the competitive scene.

Compared to other games, this one has a lot of team dependency, to the point you’re working as all one person, unlike other good team based games where you HAVE a team, but you don’t rely solely on your team to win.

It would be OK for the game to be based around having other players and such and stuff, instead of casually dropping teamwork around, make the teamwork be a core part of the subject.
Yet it doesn’t feel the same because the game feels structured in a way where failure is unacceptable, and your teamwork actually goes unnoticed and unrewarded.

Team based games tend to make teamwork a subject about the game, but not the structure and pure necessity of it; your performance or ability, or even your enjoyment out of the game, wont be negatively afflicted if a newly installed is in your team and is bad all the way, even if you have a bad teammate you can play the game well and you can win the game with one less member.

But in overwatch it’s not the same, if you have a bad teammate, that teammate’s performance will affect the performance, victory and enjoyment out of every other player.

To make the game team based is a lot more different than making the game team dependant. Team based would be like a game in which you are grouped up with a team, but your team’s ability won’t determine if you will win, if you will do well, or even if you will have fun.

A team dependant game on the other hand is just, you are no more important than the rest of your team. And the performance of you all is rounded to the lowest dividend. If one plays so bad to the point it counts as a missing player, you’re practically at a disadvantage.

Like, clearly they take and see a lot of importance in teamwork, but the execution of it is bad. They seem to take the teamwork in a competitive edge by centering it around that competitive style of teamwork, but other competitive games will prove you that the teamwork frame is not crucial for a good competitive game, more so, I believe removing “teamwork only” factors would make the experience more enjoyable both in a multi-player casual experience, and a big e-sports match. Let’s just say that, in this game, you will never be able to presence that one situation in which one player becomes the doom slayer and dooms everyone in the game, like you could see in a Csgo competitive game (which they call Ace, and it’s the highlight of the match) or even in a normal (soccer) football game, where one master player shreds and wins the game by a close hit and by winning over everyone. That isn’t possible in overwatch, since there is zero carry potential.

That potential could’ve surged from the ultimates, a well timed ultimate could’ve made the outcome of the situation turn in your favor, maybe even win you the game over. Now they cared so much about balancing it trying to even a useless statistic, that not even reapers ultimate can make a 5k.

To make the game team based is a lot more different as to make a game team dependant. The team Dependancy aspect of it DOES NOT MAKE the game more competitively viable than it would be as to care more about individual skill, which about any other competitive sport will tend to state.

In my own perception, they seem to be taking the wrong route by removing carry potential, 1v5 win possibilities or god-mode situations by focusing more in making every player teamwork as if they were a body controlling that character in QWOP.

Games that come to the top of my mind that are team based games (as in, has team, but you don’t need a good one to win or have fun) are: CSGO, TF2, Battlefield franchise, and any variants (Battlefront, Garden Warfare) COD, Fortnite, Warzone or maybe minecraft. There is teamwork factors, and sometimes there’s dependency, but they’re not necessary to win or have fun.

Otherside of this, games that I can think of that are team dependant: League of Legends.

Is league of legends a role model? Should league of legends be a role model?

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You wanna tell me that there is a game where missing a whole person is not considered an disadvantage? And if there is, do you really consider that game balanced anyhow, considering that one person is basically useless?

Couldn’t come up with a better example for a game where literally everyone on your team has the same value outside of their performance.

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You know at least on 6v6 game was still winable if 1 player left as ive done plenty of those and winning them where best feeling ever.

5v5 u lose 1 player and its near impossible and totally impossible if you lose your tank… The game became way to dependent on what other people pick and how they use it.
The same goes if one person actively throws because they are frustrated or what not… Like run Dva into Zarya and notice how difficult it all becomes for the rest of the team.

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That OW is so team dependent is why I played it for so long. This isn’t COD

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That’s the thing, cuz the value of each player is determined by their performance and skill, which you excluded for some reason, even though it’s the determining factor.

My issue is the lack of carry potential. That’s it. I don’t know of a game that doesn’t have it, and is successful too.

By genre difference, I get it.

But is it enjoyable to lose because someone in your team stays in spawn?

That’s what I don’t get.

COD is not Team dependant at all, you’re on your own.

Overwatch, on the other hand, is structured to be more team dependant.

Where I see the problem is that it is WAY too team dependant.

I’m talking, some more steps ahead and your character moves left and right by somebody else, and you have to be telling them the entire match that you need to go more to the left and such.

I’m not saying get rid of all the teamwork I’m saying get rid of overreliance in others. Doesn’t have to be zero like cod, im saying less. Benefit from teamwork but make individual skill matter in wins or losses.

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That’s true, if you lose your tank is ggwp. But even if you lose 1 support you’re still at a disadvantage.

I don’t exclude it. It’s possible to carry in this game too, you just can’t do a 1v5 clutch without ulting. But that’s to be expected since it’s a hero shooter.
You do have to depend more on your team, but that’s because you have roles that have specific jobs to do.

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Match making is trash tier rn. I don’t know what intern dreamed up the current system, it’s probably highly motivated by monetization. But it’s garbage.

This game SHOULD be team based, but rn a team can have a diamond rank Tank and a gold support. And on the other team you have a diamond DPS, and a gold tank. It’s insanity.

It also completely undermines the philosophy of this game being team based, skill based, and competitive.

I don’t know what’s in the kombucha around Blizz HQ but it’s definitely strong. Maybe they need to spend some time on their company Pelatons and sweat it out for real.

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Well, I can’t speak for OW2, but the original game was straight up marketed as a “team shooter”. I don’t know what they classify it as now.

Maybe a “semi-team shooter”?

Maybe a “you can solo flex on 9 other players, but work together if you choose to” type of a game?

Honestly who the heck knows at this point :sweat_smile:

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I actually think going to OW2 made this game LESS team dependent than it used to be. I think OW needs to rely on individual play less than it does now. We have too many one shots, ways to solo carry, etc., now than ever before.

Yes, if one teammate throws, you should lose that game. If teammates aren’t active in comms communicating plays, you should struggle to win. That’s (in the past at least) been one of the draws of this game over others.

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The team dependency aspect can be somewhat fixed by a proper matchmaker. But it seems like in OW2, they prioritised faster queue over quality match. Considering that the matchmaker was already questionable even in OW1, this makes it even worse.

Aside from that, I don’t think there is that much that can be done to increase the solo carry potential in Overwatch, without making the game less fun. The reason why Valorant has so much solo carry potential is also the reason why the game is so slow paced and not as entertaining.

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Watch this if you want to discuss matchmaking etc rn. The conclusion is it’s wildly messed up and your SR is absolutely meaningless. You’ll be ranked plat and facing every color of the rank rainbow. Plat/diamond facing Top 500 btw. Like what a joke of a system.

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Literally any team based shooter is team dependent, your down a person to take damage, provide pressure by existing apply damage etc. If you want only your individual skill to matter then you should have played arena in halo 5 or go play warzone and Fortnite now; even apex (while team based if your good enough you can solo since it is a br)

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That applies when people are within a similar skill level. As is the matchmaking will just sabotage you. Your rank won’t improve, but you will be faced to deal with ever increasing levels of difficulty, and maintain your rank unless you’re just so overwhelming that it doesn’t matter what the system matches you with.

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You talking about the br? Heavy casual player in apex so I get stomped by everyone but I believe Alex totally could have bad sbmm. Fortnite is full of bots and I’ve never played warzone so maybe CS and old halo games aka arena shooters are the best example

Ow matchmaking sucks yea

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The thing is, even if you have an ultimate, the other side has two for sure, and now your ultimate is useless. Instead of being over it all you have to trade, and you have less. And in my own perception, not being able to do a 1v5 clutch without ulting makes it less interesting, John wick is now Johnny wickerson and friends.

Bro it’s a game design theory, not a scientific formula. There’s not a gigantic wall written by the gods of video games that says “hero shooters must not allow for thy 1v5s to be achievable”, if you wanted to design a hero shooter in which you can do a 1v5 that’s possible for sure.

The Dependance I accept, but the overreliance I don’t. There’s no self-heal attributes even for staying alive for a prolonged time for any other class that is not support, and support is not capable of defending themselves. It stops being about finding and using benefits of the people around you, and it starts to feel like being powerless, which is frustrating.

Also, jobs? I mean I get your point haha but the idea of playing is to stop having to do jobs, and just have fun. I find it ironic that you leave from work to find fun doing work haha

True 100%

Some days ago, in Rockstar games (other company) they said they did a massive firing, getting rid of the “frat boy culture” in the company. After such, their games were actually getting updates, valuable updates, gta got a lot more fun now after this. Apparently there were a lot of lazy people in Rockstar. So I can imagine Blizzard having a “frat boy culture” too.

I believe so, but I still feel like everything I do is powerless, like I have no control of the outcome.

I don’t agree with this. Why do you think these things are bad? Why is the solo carry a bad thing for you?

What? But this loses the point of the game. You’re no longer playing for the fun and now you should be struggling?

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The br format and such is more suited to individual carry. In this game, with it being so objective and team based, that carry potential is highly mitigated. And the match maker does you no favors.

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Allegations and reports would support this.

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It doesn’t feel very satisfying losing to the enemy player in the same role who are playing much worse than I am, but they were able to win simply because their whole team was better.

I would much rather lose to the enemy players of the same role who are equally skilled as me or even better. At least then, I could learn something from them.

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Impossible in this framework. We are all at the mercy of our team unless we’re just far beyond the skill of the lobby. Like that vid I linked earlier.

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Well I think the answer is better suited with a scale of “how team dependent is this game”

Because, yes, every team based shooter has a level of team Dependance, but it’s not the same to have a 0 Dependance “I self heal, I shoot, I kill, I can’t even see my teammates” to a 100 Dependance “johnny, move me to the left! Rico im not running, make my characters left leg move forward! Japanese guy! My right ankle! You’re not flexing it!, I need to reload, where’s Paco!? I need to lift my right arm to reload!!!”

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