Its a hard pill to swallow for some people.
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I guess that’s why I can climb 900 Sr in one day or over a few days hard carrying and then on other accounts I can get stuck with terrible teams and not be given the opportunity? I never said im insanely good at the game I simply mean that being consistent making the right plays things like that should allow u to climb not put smooth brained tanks on your team. Go play in plat rn every other game is throwing or smurfs. It’s a terrible experience to me. This community is pretty trash when wonderlands hits steam store y’all can have y’all’s trash game. Peace out.
I mean, no one really disputes that there are malicious people playing the game, especially on a Friday night, but the matchmaker isn’t keeping you at your SR by putting these people on your team. That’s a complaint about the reporting/action system, and likely just the player base.
Also, didn’t you start this by claiming a forced 50% win rate. Did you gain that 900 SR with that win rate?
Why are you playing two accounts anyways? You’re trying to tell me that there’s no bias at all when your switch accounts? That literally nothing changes, that you don’t even know which account you’re on?
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See the issue with this is, you’re saying he can’t prove it, but you also can’t disprove it either. The core issue here is Blizzard is knowingly hiding the matchmaker from us. And it has been recorded by many players over the years and even myself that the quality of players per match vary WILDLY.
And rather understanding this may happen.
Players respond with “Git Gud” or “you’re gold” and that’s where the conversation ends. Making the forum pointless to post on since 95% of the feedback is dismissed with those 2 replies.
When people dismiss this kind of statement, it’s not because we don’t think it’s true.
It’s because we understand that given the nature and complexity of the game and the players, this is absolutely expected, unsurprising, and normal.
The only way to fix this is to have a completely different game where your result isn’t largely reliant on 5 random people.
That’s not a matchmaker problem. That’s a game design challenge. It can be overcome in two ways: git so gud that your wins aren’t reliant on your team, or stop choosing to play with 5 random people.
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Maybe if Clans were a feature they did’nt make and reserve for a sequel that nobody asked for…
Maybe if they implemented features that gave players more information rather than do their best to keep players in the dark on everything, and only display anything positive it can find aggravates players.
I agree.
Yet here we are, in the 30,000th “matchmaker is making me lose” thread. Something that wouldn’t help even if they did change it.
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The matchmaker certainly does have a hand in it, that i agree with. When players want transparency while Blizzard refuses, while some of the community rather troll and rank shame, and say “Git Gud” while ignoring the elephant in the room of issues.
Like low ranking players playing as much as possible to gain rank, while the high ranked players play as little as possible to not lose it. It’s not really a ranked ladder at all anymore…
Highly ranked players should have the time put in to show that they can hold that rank, not simply do 50 games and play all they need to hold that rank, while everyone else has to go through hundreds if not thousands of games to rank up.
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That’s the elephant in the room? How exactly is that an issue of the matchmaker?
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Because we have flipped the dichotomy where those who should have to fight to hold their rank, play less than those who are trying to gain it.
Every season should be a rank reset to SR 1 and it should be flat wins and losses, no need for a matchmaker
The only reason to do this is because you want matches to be staggeringly worse in terms of the range of player skill present in any given match, and because you want matches to be stupendously worse in terms of the one-sided steam roll matches, and because you want the rankings of the ladder to be far more uncertain and random, and because you want people who have bought high rank accounts to be treated by the game as though they possess the skill of a high ranked player.
If you did this you would get matches with top 500 players vs bronze players and everything in between and many of your matches would be largely useless for helping to rank the players on the ladder in terms of their skill.
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I agree with this from my own experience, I just think the system is way too drastic in it’s assumptions.
We know, probably from Jeff himself - can’t remember exactly who said that from the dev team, that the system compares even our average performance (outdated MMR topic) with your current performance [and balances the team out with overperformers and underperformers].
So in my example, as someone who managed to have two stable alts around the high plat-low diamond and plays on this prehistoric gold account I always get easy first matches (taken I don’t have any leaver, thrower, etc. in my team) because, from what I understand, I start at my trash player MMR. Then somewhere after the third match, mostly all won, the games become significantly harder, or even unwinnable. Yet these matches still aren’t Diamond rated, but Gold, so why should they be so hard? For winning them, I have often received such an insignificant compensation compared to the investment I’ve put in that I simply felt robbed. And there we have it. I won, but didn’t have fun and I didn’t climb - terrible experience. Not even to mention if I had lost.
Of course I could play only the 3 matches daily, even did so in the times I had the other 2 accounts and managed to climb to mid plat without much effort - even the advice to play until first lost/stomp has been around for ages, but isn’t that just a proof that the system sucks and forces you to stay in your rank, aka forced 50/50, aka elo hell…?
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The game doesn’t force a 50% win rate and ELO hell (per your definition) doesn’t exist.
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No. It’s not proof of forced 50% and it’s not proof of elo hell.
If you aren’t gaining much SR on a win, then you are performing worse than the average player on your hero in that SR range. And there are lots of reasons this could be happening, but I’d like to discuss one in particular. And it’s based on this bit from your post:
If you are only playing sparingly, you should not expect to see much change in SR. And that goes both ways- it means that your higher ranked accounts will tend to stay at that higher rank, and that your lower ranked account will tend to stay at that lower rank.
But I’d suggest that the issue is even deeper than that. Why do people suggest that you should only play until your first loss? (I should expect my first loss within the first few matches, by the way.) Why do people only play a few matches or only play their placements and then stop for the season?
They are anticipating that things will go catastrophically wrong.
They are anticipating that once they lose, they will continue to lose. In short, they are scared. And that impacts play. There’s a thing that happens with athletes and performers (I’m more familiar with the latter, myself) that can really hinder their ability to perform at their level. It’s known by various terms, but you might have heard of “playing tight” or “the yips” in something like baseball, or athletes or performers being “in their head.”
And people will pay lots of money to get someone to help coach them through this. Not amateurs either, I’m talking about professionals at the height of their careers. They will pay people to help them deal with this performance anxiety so that they can return to form. But in the mean time, their performance can tank.
And it’s not that they suddenly don’t know how to act or tell jokes or play sportsball, it’s that their anxiety that they will experience significant setbacks, that they won’t perform to their ability, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Far better to be like Emongg or Guru or whoever (I watch a lot of tank streams) and play all the fracking time. Why do they do this rather than camping a rank in top 100 or top 50 or wherever? They do it because they know that they can impact their matches. They do it because they have confidence in their ability.
And yes, there are people who camp ranks on the ladder, and there are people who play on alts when their main account reaches a certain rank. (And yes there are people who are tired of the current state of OW and it’s lack of updates.) But there are also people who play hundreds of matches every season. (I think Emongg sometimes plays 25 or 30 matches in a day.)
They can do that because they aren’t playing tight. They are confident in their ability. And they aren’t looking for “this one weird trick that will let you rank up.”
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What are you talking about? High ranked players lose rank unless they play. We could lower the threshold for what counts as “high ranked” I guess, but even then, that’s not a matchmaker problem.
Low ranked players will remain low ranked no matter how many games they play. You don’t rank up simply by playing more games.
There’s not 5000 players total. It’s not a ranked ladder at all until you get to top 500.
So your two premises are false and your conclusion, while correct, isn’t a problem.
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I hear this a lot and somehow can’t believe it with my portrait burning in the corner. Also, even if, wouldn’t this go against developers intention that it’s better to switch to your worse hero to compensate the team than stick to your best hero no matter what? People even tested that switching heroes can badly affect how much SR you’ll gain when winning.
As for the rest of your answer. It makes a lot of sense, as all your responses, but it’s not that people want to stop playing after the first lost match, they just found out that this way they’ll climb and not suffer another losing streak (because MM decided to give them harder matches).
then we would have even more topics being posted about the matchmaker…people will always complain about why they cant climb, until they realize that they can, THEY need to make changes, not the matchmaker as that is working as intended.
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The advice is to stop playing after a couple of consecutive losses, and it has nothing to do with gaming the system.
You are, presumably, human. As a human, you’re really, really bad at objective self-awareness. When you’re playing, you don’t want to stop, but your brain may not be at it’s best. Stopping after a couple of losses prevents a person from tanking their SR down to the rank appropriate to their tired, hungry, tilted, drunk self.
It’s actually an indication that the system works as we’re describing it. The system as you describe it would give a drunk person easier matches without changing their SR. This obviously doesn’t happen.
The notion that SR can so easily be wrong also describes a lot of the issues people have with it. There’s a +/- 200SR range (depending on who you ask) that people can’t tell much difference in skill. Your own skill probably varies as much as 800 SR throughout the day, and easily more in some circumstances.
Doesn’t the idea that players are inconsistent make more sense that the MMR/SR system is designed so that SR stays gold while MMR puts you in diamond matches? That system would be obviously broken and everyone would notice.
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Likely, PBSR has it’s uses, but I’ve never been convinced that it’s a great idea.
It seems that few people really complain about it though, I’m not sure if that’s because there’s a false flag out there to rally around instead, or if it’s really only a rare, niche issue.
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Totally agreed. I’ll be playing like a donkey after a 12h shift and a beer. So probably even 800 SR range is to low. But I still can’t understand how my much younger accounts can be rated at 2920 - 3180 and this OG one can fall as low as 1500.
I didn’t say that people are consistent all the time. I just implied that it’s BS to have a system that has special modules that takes this into consideration. If you underperform you should lose SR and vice versa. Not that a system babysits your dumb as that you don’t fall too low when donkey drunk or throws bricks at you when you are at your peak performance.
Also, I didn’t say these are diamond matches, on the contrary, I said that these are still gold matches that vary so much in the skill of players or skill demanding to carry your team.