the earth is flat because ive never been to space!
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lol that’s a broken matchmaker, why are diamond accounts having loss streaks to bring them to gold tier? hahaha
Your posts are extremely suspect, constantly defending a matchmaker that everyone knows is broken, VERY suspect, also the way you say that everyone is lying? Come on man, not everyone is lying and out to trick you, people are just telling their side of the story.
I don’t agree that it’s a 50% forced win rate, I just know it’s broken. It’s easy to understand how the matchmaker works, we see it every time we play the game, and there are entire videos that explain exactly how it works. Here’s a video of an actual matchmaker developer explaining it, and it’s definitely a broken system.
The more you play the tighter the variance becomes which holds you at a certain tier until you stop playing for awhile. This is why new accounts can rank up to 1000’s of tiers above where you normally are so easily, not debatable.
Honestly, I fail to see what you think is broken.
What do you want it to do, that it’s not doing, AND is reasonable for it to achieve?
It’s not a magic mind reader. It’s not meant to get you to gain ranks. Most of the problems I see people talk about aren’t caused by the proper workings of the matchmaker but players either deliberately or accidentally causing it to fail.
Like your comment above, no, the fact that a diamond level player can drop down to gold isn’t evidence of anything regarding the matchmaker other than it’s working as intended.
I really don’t see how anyone who actually understand how it works can claim otherwise.
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If you haven’t seen the problems with the matchmaker then you haven’t played a fraction of the time you need to in order to understand how the matchmaker works.
I can get on a Masters account and win matches fairly easily. I can then get on a gold tier account and struggle to win matches, then I can get on a different gold tier account and absolutely destroy people, what’s wrong with that other account where I’m struggling??? That’s evidence of broken matchmaking and hundreds of thousands of other people have reported the same thing, that’s called eye-witness accounts and is a form of evidence in a court of law.
How about this one, when you reach a new tier, you go on a loss streak where you lose 4-5 matches in a row. Everyone reading this who does SOLO QUEUE has seen this a thousand times, and so have you, you’ll deny it because you don’t want to lose an argument, but you’ve seen it. I can bring it up in matches “anyone ever cross into a new tier and go on a loss streak?” and 100% of the time someone says “yes what the hell is that?” Go ahead, get on and cross into a new tier and instantly be placed on a loss streak where you have around 10% chance of winning.
The evidence is literally in the video I posted above where he explains exactly what I’m talking about, but you just want to deny things that you “think” are unlikely.
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Okay, then. So go ahead and give us the replay codes of these matches with you playing on the Masters account and winning fairly easily and on the Gold account and struggling. I’d also love to see the thousands of reports of this.
Don’t you think someone, somewhere would have shown a match of a Masters player struggling in Gold if that were a thing?
As for the lying- I grew up in a very particular religious environment. And I’ve seen all of this before. People who are convinced they are right. They just know it. And no one can convince them differently.
They will make up all sorts of bizarre stuff and swear up and down that they witnessed it personally. I have heard people who claim to have been vampires, or claim to have fallen victim to Satanic rituals and barely escaped. Or claim to have seen someone regrow their limbs after someone laid hands on them. Or claim to have personally been possessed by demons.
They will swear up and down this is true. And they’ll bring in plenty of other eye-witness accounts of these things.
It’s not that I don’t believe people think this is true. It’s that it is fairly obvious (by the rhetorical techniques being used, by the refusal to engage any actual arguments, by the obvious falsehoods such as “hundreds of thousands of other people have reported the same thing,” etc) that people are making up their evidence because they have faith that they know this untrue thing to be true.
If people were more honest with themselves, we would not be in this position. But people begin this whole process by self-deception.
Consider the difference between two people who believe in unicorns:
The first believes in unicorns. They love thinking about and reading about and imagining unicorns. And they believe they are real. But they do not claim to have seen unicorns. They might have seen one out of the corner of their eye at some point (and they’ll say so), but it was dark and it could have been a horse and they recognize this fact.
The second believes in unicorns. And they know they are right. Moreover, they think it’s really important that other people believe in unicorns. And since they know that unicorns exist, they have no qualms about stretching the truth about it a bit. They’ll tell you that they grew up on a unicorn farm, and that they’ve seen dozens of unicorns- everyone knows that unicorns exist. They can tell you how unicorns look and maybe they’ve got some photos of them that they found online (though they’ll claim to have personally taken the photos if you call them on the fact that Photoshop exists and get angry at you for the personal affront to their honor). They’ll even talk about how they’ve petted unicorns, so how can you possibly claim that unicorns don’t exist when they’ve personally petted them.
Are you calling them a liar???!!! How dare you?!
The second person thinks they are being clever. And they think they are doing it for a good reason. They are a crusader. But it’s obvious that they are lying. And there is no good reason to engage in such a poor deception. It doesn’t benefit anyone. (Unless there is some sort of scam that benefits one or more persons financially.) It’s really just a waste of time.
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So this one is easy. Falling of your peak is beyond normal. It would be more suspicious if it didn’t happen. I mean, I’m of course not denying it, this is the exact thing that makes me think your expectations are off.
Like, if I told you that my lamp was broken because everytime I pushed a switch on it that it turned off, you’d think I was insane. Same thing here.
There’s multiple reasons why this shouldn’t happen, simply that you shouldn’t be playing on so many different accounts.
Even then, if you’re telling the truth at all here it doesn’t sound like you’ve done anything other than confirm your bias.
I have no doubt that you can play a few games in different tiers at different times and have wildly different experiences. Again, well within what can be expected and the only thing abnormal is that you’re doing it at all.
I mean, who should I believe, the angry guy who thinks that a few lucky games means that he’s a masters level player or actual masters level streams of people that put in the work to climb, or lots and lots of people who say they have climbed, including myself, and haven’t experienced this?
It’s just too easy to discount this as biased ramblings when it seems to only happen to you and others that claim they’re better than they actually are.
Stream your masters level account for 100 games then your gold level account for 100 games, and if they’re not much, much closer by then, I will admit there’s something strange.
But you haven’t said anything out of the ordinary.
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All these people all just use extreme confirmation bias as their proof. They act as if win/lose streaking all the time is some crazy discovery when its literally one of two outcomes in your games. You either streak, or have scattered wins and losses. There’s not that much to it. They also love to give anecdotal evidence. It’s great you are outing that you are boosted to masters and therefore can’t win in gold! Unfortunately, no, that does not prove anything about the matchmaker. It’s quite funny how not a single player that has ever touched top 500 has ever complained about the matchmaker because they have the self awareness to realize their mistakes and learn from them, rather than yell at the game.
It’s also quite clear these people have never played another competitive game that isn’t overwatch in their life. LoL and Valorant have a much slower rank progression compared to overwatch. And in some games like CS:GO or Rocket League you aren’t even given a number to correlate to your rank. Literally every competitive game uses MMR to balance games but somehow Blizzard is the bad guy using the tried and true method in their game. It’s an echo chamber talking to these guys. Or maybe they might bring out the blizzard shill argument. Whatever will it be this time!! They are basically flat earthers. The tin foil hat goes on and they look past all rational thought for one instance that might suggest they are right. SAD!
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And it seems to be only here. There are obviously complaints in other games, but this particular of evidence and reason free strain of criticism seems unique to OW.
No one anywhere else thinks that the company is deliberately holding people back by matching then with bad teammates or against smurfs.
They may complain about the players, but they know it’s not a matchmaker problem.
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Oh, and you’re misinterpreting this. Mu and sigma obviously change upon each data point. What he’s saying is that if, upon the creation of a new mu after a period of no data, sigma needs to expand to fill both data points.
In other words, on a previously low variance, stagnant account with significant skill delta, not accounting for those factors will produce bad quality matches.
That’s not “how it works” and it’s not what you’re describing. It’s also easily seen and fixable with enough games by the player. Also, a really good reason to use hidden MMR, though I’ll let you dwell on the reason for that while I eat dinner.
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Thanks for this. I was going to come back and watch the video after I put my kids to bed, but I hadn’t gotten around to it yet. I was fairly certain that what I would find would be something akin to what I find when I look at the dev statements that people quote- a misunderstanding of what is actually being described.
I appreciate that the fact that you took the time to do this so I did not have to. (I still plan to watch the video for my own benefit, but I won’t feel the need to post afterwards now.) Thanks again.
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It’s good. I’ve watched it before, but the mu and sigma actually come from somewhere else, I think a technical paper on the TrueSkill system. I imagine that any system with a variance uses these two variables since those are common across fields.
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Here ya go, thousands of people describing broken, or so called “rigged” matchmaking. Literally thousands, have fun reading it. That’s just the tip of the iceberg, I have 10’s of thousands more where that came from let me know if you’re interested.
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/overwatch/search?q=rigged%20matchmaking
What you don’t realize is you’re the unicorn. The objective evidence is right in front of your face every time you play yet you are absolutely positive that fair matchmaking exists. You’re so positive that the matchmaking is fair that when you go on loss streaks at predictable times, every time, you just ignore it and think “this is normal.”
The waste of time is me speaking with someone who doesn’t know enough to even defend their point.
dude just links right back into the echo chamber. hilarious
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You’re not understanding. It’s not my peak, it’s the peak on a different account. The peak on one account can be 2500 and I’ll go on a loss streak, meanwhile I have another account in Masters, or even play at my friends house on a Grandmaster account and can win 4-5 matches in a row using the same tanks and strategy.
Then why does Blizzard allow and even encourage playing on multiple accounts? What do you even mean I shouldn’t be playing on so many accounts? Says who? I bet the matchmaker programmers don’t want people playing on so many accounts because it blatantly reveals the huge gaps in consistency the matchmaker has.
The stuff you say is WAY off, not even the right ball-park or planet type of WAY OFF. You think it’s weird that people have multiple accounts and are playing on them? I would bet most people reading this have multiple account, I bet even YOU have multiple accounts and if you don’t then you have no credibility in this conversation, zero.
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LOL. dude wants us to believe he goes on a playdate to his friends house and wins games in grandmaster. 3600 players are lost in gm games, let alone somebody who can barely win in gold. This is like the third thing he’s just made up in this thread. Pretty sad really.
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You’re doing what 95% of people on the planet do with information, overcomplicate it and confuse yourself but are pretty sure nobody will call you out on it.
Besides that, what you just explained is describing broken matchmaking. The matchmaker should look at the persons SR and match them with people of similar SR and do nothing else, why does it need a variance? rofl, how can you not understand this?? The idea that it needs to see how you’ve been playing recently IS THE BROKEN PART. You can’t understand this, it’s like when people try to imagine what was going on in the world before the big bang and their mind goes blank, that’s what’s happening inside your head when I explain this. It’s not even debatable.
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Most people who have different accounts aren’t treating them the same.
Anecdotes from unreliable sources are not data. Not that I actually expect you to understand this. You clearly don’t understand the concept of bias at all, perhaps haven’t even been exposed to it given that you don’t even try to hide yours.
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Oh, and here i was thinking that you were against skill based matchmaking.
Did you watch the whole video? Did you see the part about why you would separate SR from MMR that was in the video that you linked and relied on to make your point?
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I’ll explain it in the hopes that one day when you’re laying on your death bed you’ll be able to grasp the truth that I’m about to tell you.
Matchmaking should have one number, call it whatever you want, I’ll call the number the “Rank.”
So everyone should have a Rank and it’s based on one thing alone, whether or not they lost a match. If they win a match it goes up a point, if they lose a match it goes down a point. The matchmaker should look at this Rank and match it with other people of the same Rank, and do nothing else. NOTHING else, it should never under any circumstance consider individual statistics, how they played last game, or the past several games. Why? Because there are far too many variables to ever calculate what real skill looks like. Who’s more important, the guy who distracted the other team and was killed, or the guy who killed all the people who were being distracted? An algorithm would say the guy who killed them when it’s far from the case. Currently players get punished for scenarios like this (being the distractor who dies).
Having a matchmaker that looks how you’ve been playing recently and then uses that information to create “fair” matches is exactly what creates the so called “ELO HELL.” Here’s why:
Because as soon as you increase your skill and before you’ve had a chance to rank up as far as you should go, the matchmaker will offset your skill increase by placing you against better players or by placing people who have less skill on your team. Another way of stating the problem simply is : If you are placed in a 50/50 match regardless of whatever tier you’re, there you will stay. Think you found a way to tip the scales in your favor? Nope, that’s already been calculated, a 50/50 match means you have a 50% chance and all your skills and tricks are baked into that calculation. That’s why people can buy a new account and rank up 500-1000 SR and stay there, because they made it to that new tier and are being placed in 50/50 matches so they stay around that tier.
What I just described is the core problem with Overwatch matchmaking and is actually preventing more fun from being had.
PS: I just explained matchmaking in a way that anyone could understand instead of wasting time trying to impress people with explanations meant to bewilder.