The DPS queue problem and why it involves a shift in community needs for it to change

The dev responses on the Discord rapid fire were pretty eye-opening. Some responses weren’t exactly what I was hoping to hear (Jeff’s response on Pick-bans) while others invited a different train of thought on the queue times that I didn’t think of before. For a long time, I’ve always thought that for DPS queue times to improve that we needed more Tanks in the game.

Jeff’s rebuttal about more heroes made me realize that the actual way to improve queue times for DPS is to make Tanks less team-oriented. Tanks are the most powerful of the 3 classes, but it comes at the cost of being the most punishing class of the 3. Despite Reinhardt’s insane power, he’s still a team-oriented Tank that can’t work without his team supporting him whereas a Tank like Zarya or better yet Roadhog doesn’t need the support of their team to have impact. It’s part of why DPS is the most popular role despite being the least powerful overall in comparison to Tanks and Supports. (certain exceptions in DPS exist, but overall Tanks and Supports have been the more impactful roles)

So from what I’m seeing, the only way to make Tanks more appealing to the DPS players or to players overall that aren’t Tank players is to make Tank heroes less reliant on their team to have impact. However, doing so might have to come at the cost of team fight power to exchange for personal impact.

What do you guys think? You think there’s some truth to it or just Fake News?

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I think this already has been the case. It’s been the case since about Valkyrie.

And all its done is remove tank players.

If you like dps…you like d. P. S.

Not rein but with a brig shield and double dmg

It don’t work.

No amount of dmg will make orisa have McCree mains play her.

No amount of dmg will make Winston appeal to widow players

You will not get tracer mains to play sigma. No matter how often he can throw a rock

It won’t happen.

Appealing to dps will not work

You don’t get people to “like” a Chevy spark by adding monster truck wheels to the spark .

Then you just have monster truck wheels on a clown car. They aren’t the same people.

Eco minded Chevy spark doesn’t appeal to monster truck or race car drivers.

It doesn’t change by tacking one element on top

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So you want Tanks to stop being Tanks? Have you never played an RPG or a MOBA before?

Basically, the only way to solve the problem, is to have Tanks and Supports play like DPS.

Like…hell no, sorry but as DPS player I don’t play Tank and Support expecting them to play like another role. I need a shift in mindset in order to play them and do my job, if you can’t handle that then sorry but you won’t climb and you won’t get good.

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You got it right, 100%.

It sucks playing a role where if either your healers or your DPS don’t both coordinate with you at the same time, then your impact is greatly diminished.
A lot more than other roles.

As to how do you buff BarrierTanks without getting into excessive barrier problems.

It pretty much boils down to:

  • A. More firepower
  • B. Limit BarrierTanks to 1, and Lots of buffs of any type

I think my freedom and choice on tank is fine.

For tanking.

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It is, until either your DPS or Healers aren’t coordinating with you.

Then you can’t have much impact on the outcome of fights.

Your fun shouldn’t have to be hostage to your teammates “doing their job” consistently

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I will always be against making roles more dps oriented or less team reliant. It may fix queues slightly. But what happens when they get buffed so much they break the balance of the game. They don’t need healing anymore. They don’t need damage dealers to get picks. They just play independently. At that point they aren’t tanks. They aren’t balanced. And they will not be fun to go against.

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where are those discord comments

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Imo, this is explicitly the nature of being big.

Objectively…no.

McCree has hella less in his kit than dva . Winston and him share much of the same kind of values.

One is just smol

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It’s not just DPS players however. Supports are the most balanced in terms of personal impact to the team fight ratio while not as powerful as Tanks. DPS players can find appeal in Supports because not only is there overlap with certain heroes in DPS, but also because they can get their own impact while still being a team player. The same isn’t said for Tanks because by their design, they require so much from their team in order to get effectiveness out of their kit. Not to say that the Supports and DPS don’t need help (Genji is one such DPS hero that is nowadays a team reliant DPS hero), but as me and others here have said, the amount of freedom is limited by your team’s cooperation.

I never said I want them to stop being Tanks. I only said that if queue times are to improve, then we need to have a shift in perspective on Tank play to make them more independent and less team reliant. Tanks in general need their team to even be effective. Without them, they’re just a ball of ult charge. Imagine playing Reinhardt without Lucio or playing Winston without Mercy or Ball to assist you.

Tbh honest, it’s more like an indifference from high tiers towards the other 90% of the players of the game.

High tier games it’s almost a given that people will “do their job” a lot more often than not.

But the reality of things is that Diamond and above is about 7% of the total players.

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Imo, then you just won’t have tanks.

That’s the point.

Of you wanted individual engage and disengage …that’s dps.

You are looking for. …dps

And playing to…dps.

Which don’t work.

Dva got a tracer blink and she was still not liked by dva players.

Rein got a ridiculous independence passive and still…no influx of rein players

Because it don’t matter if you don’t wanna tank. And if you wanna tank, a zoom ability isn’t what you went to dva for

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I wish people would stop sacrificing balance for queue times. Making all tanks so broken they don’t need the team to succeed isn’t a good idea. That won’t make queues shorter in a healthy way.

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So again…size. and I chose the off tanks because…even with their higher self survivability…they aren’t hopping either.

Would people play them if they were just
…smaller?

Well…looking at brig…no.

No the dps will not. .
And the tanks will not

I’d say they dont need full autonomy, but bringing them to similar levels of self-sufficiency that DPS-Healers enjoy would be “healthy”.

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Supports and dps don’t have much self sufficiency either. A dps not getting g support isn’t going to do well. A support that has nothing blocking the mountain of damage coming in is t going to have time to support through that damage. Tanks are the leaders of this pack. They are the frontline creating the space and deciding where fights can take place. But they shouldn’t be capable of that, and killing, and self sustain.

But the truth of the matter is they have more.

How about we just make the non team reliant tanks good enough to actually be played? We have them, Roadhog and Wrecking Ball. Imagine if that was an actual, functional composition you could play and not lose games on.

Where did I say that they need straight buffs for self-sufficiency? I said they’d need changes to their team fight factor to make up for individual impact improvements. (Not to mention that this is one way to go about improving queue times for all roles and not just DPS) Tanks are the most powerful role there is, but it comes at the price of being the hardest punished role there is and it gets harder with the fact of how team-oriented the role is overall.

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