The Dodo Compromise Mercy Rework v2

[AliceRavens-2485]

Reducing her basic healing again would be the wrong way. 50 Hps is barely enough already and an ally can go from missing just a bit to 0 hp faster than this can kick in.

Moira, Ana and Baptiste have really good burst heals, so Mercy should be allowed to have a good one too. Not a pseudo-good one.

(My comment from the other thread just as requested )

[Violetta-11500]

I really like the bigger main beam and little chain healing, though I felt that 80/40 hps is better than 75/35 hps. That way the potential healing is as the same as 60/60 hps so it didn’t felt like a nerf and more of a minor rework.

The critical care is a nice idea too, but I would prefer for her healing to just remains on 60 hps because that way her healing will stay consistent since the critical care makes her healing a little bit more inconsistent. But it’s not an idea that I don’t agree with.

Invigorate is pretty unnecessary for her in my opinion. Mercy shouldn’t have any form of burst heal or some may complain about her being not having any weakness. We can leave the burst heal for Moira, Ana, Baptiste and Brigitte since Mercy has a much more consistent and reliable healing than they are.

I don’t really know what to say on “cleansing” in Invigorate, it sounds pretty overpowered for Mercy, but… I don’t know. Mostly because it’s in the same package as Invigorate, but giving Mercy another utility might makes her a little overpowered though. Cause, unlike Ana (who provide all kind of utility) Mercy can provide them in a more consistent manner, and adding cleansing effect on her kit might cause a lot of mixed reaction. But I don’t really disagree with it.

[DanDemonium-11441]

Couldn’t agree more, on every single point you made

[Violetta-11500]

And I always have this idea where instead of giving Mercy chain healing, why don’t they just remove the chain beams and giving her a much more powerful solo beam instead. I saw a comment in the forum about that Valkyrie covers all Mercy’s weaknesses (aoe healing and damage boost, a much more better mobility, etc).

So, instead of chain healing, why not a solo heal that heals 200 hps and the damage boost will be increased to 50%. That way, she still needs to juggle the beam which makes her more engaging instead of, as they said it, enjoying the blue sky and she will have a form of consistent burst heal. But it’s balanced since it is an ultimate.

Though, I feel as I wrote this I can hear an Ana main screams disagree with it since Mercy can damage boost an ally for 50% and if they die (heroic or stupid) she can change her target to someone else. But I feel like this changes is pretty good since it enhances her core design (juggle heal and damage boost).

Edit: But the most primary thing to fix is the bug on GA where we can’t fly to our allies even though GA says it can. It’s so frustrating when I try to jump stupidly over and over just to get a peek of my teammates head so that I can GA to them -_-.

[DanDemonium-11441]

I agree a little less on that part. I’ve also considered removing the chains in exchange for a huge buff to a single beam, but I fear it may be a bit of an overcorrection, and that would make her too powerful. I don’t think Mercy ever needs to be able to fullheal a roadhog in 3 seconds, and even on only one person at a time, a free damage boost of 50 sounds terrifying

[Violetta-11500]

I seriously know what you mean. It makes Ana’s nano boost sounds useless and it’s nano boost, one of the most powerful ults in Overwatch. Valkyrie is powerful because of it’s duration, mobility and consistency and if this were ever being made true, we basically just make Ana jobless… Again.

[Megadodo-11847]

I am glad to see some discussion underway here

Thanks all

That said - keep in mind that the driving intent with this particular rework suggestion is compromise, ie the changes should make some unhappy players a bit less unhappy, but more importantly, need to keep the current player able to pretty much still play Mercy as they do presently.

Said another way - I can’t really consider a change suggested (for v3, which I will do, definitely) here if it changes Mercy in a way that dramatically changes how she is played currently. Example - cant add mass rez to this rework suggestion - not saying anyone has or will make such a suggestion, just sayin for clarity

[Violetta-11500]

I agree with you but I seriously don’t know what to do against the pro mass-rez. Like it will never returns into the game and they still failed to move on. I do believe that they were rather aiming for the impact when playing as Mercy and I hope that this rework shall satisfy them.

[DanDemonium-11441]

As much as I hate to say it, the mass Rez crowd needs to move on. They have every right to be frustrated, and I would never go so far as to tell them they are wrong to miss mass Rez, but I draw the line at constantly making posts (or hijacking other posts) and demanding the return of a controversial ability that was removed for a reason and that the devs have explicitly said they would never undo.

The best we can do is try to find common ground, which in my opinion means that both a full revert and a full rework are both off the table. For better or for worse, Mercy’s Valkyrie kit is probably here to stay, but we can still look into smaller changes.

A rework of how the beams work in Valkyrie, rather than replacing Valk entirely. Variable applications of the single-target Rez ability, rather than deleting it entirely. Switching her primary healing to a sliding scale based on urgency, rather than moving the flat rate up and down every few patches. These are the kind of changes i’m willing to consider.

Bringing back mass rez, deleting Rez entirely, and replacing Valk with a brand new ult are not acceptable.

[DanDemonium-11441]

I haven’t dabbled in the “Workshop” on ptr too much, but I wonder if it’d be possible to test these changes there?

[Megadodo-11847]

It’s what she’s known for, the thing that puts her on the map. Removing Mercy’s Rez would be like removing Pharah’s jet pack.

Agreed.

That said, there are many folks who do want all forms of rez removed from Mercy and from the game.

In this compromise proposal, I allow such individuals to remove it from THEIR gameplay (via always choosing the use-on-living-target option, and never choosing the rez option) but it remains in the game for folks who love playing Mercy as she is - ie with rez

In this fashion, the intent is to keep existing players happy but additionally making a few unhappy folks a bit happier…or at least, hopefully, less unhappy

[Megadodo-11847]

Change 1: Big Main Little chains. I like this change. I’ve liked it for quite a while now.

Thank you.

Please note that I reduced the base numbers because Critical Care kicks on on the main beam

Change 2: I love it. Nothing else to say really. It has bugged me for a while that Mercy has GA which makes her perfect for reacting to allies in trouble but had no healing mechanism to make her good at helping critical allies.

Again, thanks.

I am expecting a lot of folks to stop reading once they see base healing gets nerfed to 40HPs/s. On a forum with thousands of folks clamoring for a healing rate buff, I am the only one (AFAIK) proposing a base healing nerf.

Change 3: You don’t mention the cool down if using the living target version. I’m assuming it is 30s as well?

Correct, given that if I dont expressly describe a change, it remains as it is. My intent here is that people counting on Mercy’s power to kick in every 30 seconds shouldnt have to wonder is it 30 or is it n, where N is the number used for the use-on-living-target power. Besides, with a 30s cooldown, it can have more oomph built into it than it would it it was faster.

Gut reaction is I like it but the numbers look a little low for a 30s cool down… but I also may be underselling the cleanse effect… Not sure exactly.

The duration or seconds of cleansing can be tweaked up and down for sake of striking the right balance. Not worried about getting the numbers exactly right in the proposal, but I think they’re close. My main concern is the concept, not the precise numbers used

I do like how you’ve tied the cleanse to an ability in such a way that it isn’t the main upside of the ability.

I think in some cases, it will be…like in the Reincicle example I gave

I like powers stacking and synergizing, and this enhances the yellow beam nicely with a power that imo the game desperately needs - cc cleansing

Change 4: That all sounds good to me. I’m not sure we’ll ever see the existing beam not be interrupted because all transformation ultimates temporarily stop the usage of the weapon. Actually, thinking about that more, there may be a technical limitation there. Like Mercy may have an invisible weapon swap that happens during the cast.

using that same line of thought, an invisible “continuation of beam” could be added with the same effects

Also, any chance I could get you to add a QoL buff to press E again to cancel Resurrect?

I will think on it.

Knee jerk reaction - I feel rez needs to remain risky, and its still just a couple of seconds involved, so I am leaning toward no on this one. Sorry.

I must say I would somewhat prefer it if my set of low impact changes happened… but… overall I would be incredibly happy if this set of changes got applied to Mercy.

Cool

OH! Edit: also side note that I want to add before I forget. Change #2 actually further weakens her synergy with tanks.

Since tanks have a much wider range of HP in the under 50% range than squishies, I see this as benefitting tanks the most…ie it will be easier to keep a tank on their feet than a squishy.

I see Tracer and Baby Dva hurting a bit from this change

Part of the reason that stacking healing on Tanks is super effective is because they have armor. Depending on what removed the armor in the first place… healing it back could effectively double the healing rate applied. However, since Armor sits above HP, most (Rein, DVa) or all (Hammond, Winston, ) of Mercy healing armor will be at her 40 HPs rate. The only exception is Orisa since she’s half armor. I don’t know if you intended to do that… but yeah, this Mercy will be kinda terrible at replacing armor. So if you get any more people worrying that these Mercy changes would strengthen Goats… yeah… they won’t.

To clarify: the percentage of health used for determining the current healing rate in Critical Care will include all healable numbers - hps, healable armor (if any) and healable shields (if any). They are treated as the same for this purpose

[Jaycast16-1575]

Megadodo if there’s one thing I’ve noticed with you is that you and I usually are on the same side when it comes to Mercy and this is no different.

Definitely feelin these ideas. Detailed and easy to read. I enjoyed it

[JimothyJohn-1949]

Megadodo with the mega post!

Although I do not play her very often and share your view that she is fine as is I do also very much like your proposal as a whole. It seems to add some great elements of decision making into the kit and would greatly increase her skill ceiling in my eyes.

I am at the point right now where I would really like this to be added.

Well done Megadodo.

[RobotWizard-116887]

@Robotwizard (we continue to see more eye to eye?)

I still think her internal balance between Valk / Rez and the rest of her kit is crazy bad.

That isn’t going to change.

Critical care, and big mains / little chains is good stuff though.

[Megadodo-11847]

I like Invigorate.

Thanks.

Any input on BigMainLittleChains?

It’s a pretty straight buff to give Mercy additional options like that

I can understand how one might feel this is a buff, but given that isn’t adding an additional thing Mercy can do, but rather introduces a choice where ONLY one or the other can be accomplished, I really and honestly dont see it as a buff. Youre not getting the cleanse AND the rez for any one usage instance you’re getting one of the two and not the other.

I agree that it could be argued that providing an additional choice is a buff. Maybe so. But if so, not (nearly) the same as providing both

I am thinking that most players will for the most part use it for one or the other excusively.

but I’d be ok with it in this case since choosing the proactive form of the ability would still trigger a cooldown. It’s a big risk to use either way and it might make people really analyze the best way to use it instead of just rezzing because they can. I’m always for more decision-making from the supports.

as am I.

for players who prefer rez, they still have the same exact decision making process - do I rez this guy. For folks who want to engage in full decisionmaking - do I rez this guy here or use it on our reincicle over there before Mei shoots another icey spike into his forehead.

Critical Care would definitely appeal to some Mercy players but I think any form of that would be too strong. 50 constant HPS is already very strong and anyone who focuses through that has earned the kill.

I dont honestly see this as a buff, given that characters overall probably spend more time in the 100-75% wounded range than in the under 50

What would you say if the rate changed on the thirds, ie 100-66=40, 66-33=50, and 33-1=60? Still OP? Better? Worse?

[Megadodo-11847]

Thanks for the love, @Widowmeiker

[MagyTheMage-1534]

Thanks for the first bit of love, @Polski

They deleted their comment so now it looks liek your talking to your imaginary friends

[lobster-12673]

I find the damage boost beam changes in Valkyrie just to be a straight nerf, it’s overall less damage being boosted with the trade off not being rewarding enough, personally I don’t see much of an issue with the main target having 50% dmg amplified with the chained significantly less.

Edit: I do like the other ideas though, especially critical care.

[Megadodo-11847]

For someone who likes the current version of Mercy, the only question is - will these changes make me unhappy, or will I still mostly be playing mercy the same as I am now

That’s a good way of putting it. Like I said before, I’m fairly happy with Mercy’s current kit. Most if not all of these changes would not make me unhappy, and some of them would make me even happier.

Excellent…for a player who likes current Mercy, thats exactly the intended target

The option was added because some folks just hate rez.

While I get that people hate rez, its still intrinsically part of her character. I would never advocate for the addition of a reviving ability if it weren’t already in the game, but since it was present at launch I feel like stripping Mercy of rez entirely would be like stripping Lucio of his music (lore-wise), or for a more gameplay-oriented example, like stripping Reinhardt of his shield.

Exactly. The option is added not for the players who already like Mercy, but for others, who want something else, but generally such proposals come with rez being discarded entirely. I think this is a good compromise

But I guess as long as you’re adding abilities to her E rather than replacing them, this isn’t a huge problem. This is more about my disagreement with other people, rather than with you.

Understood

The burst helps this Rein survive the icicles a bit longer while the cleanse is thawing him more rapidly than he would otherwise - it gives Rein a chance to survive this otherwise certain death and then give Mei a good thrashing

Oof, appealing to my aggressive Mercy nature again. Sometimes when a teammate is being harassed, I find it more beneficial to whip out my pistol and gun the enemy down before healing my friend, since we’ve already discussed the times when healing only delays the inevitable. This burst would ensure that my teammate lives long enough for us to eliminate the threat before I finish patching them up (kill and heal, rather than kill and rez).

as intended

Alright fine, I’m begrudgingly on board with Invigorate

chuckle

begrudging is better to my eyes than not at all

Yeah that makes perfect sense, I know that none of these numbers are set in stone. In fact the only thing that’s set in stone about Mercy is that no matter what changes you make, some people will never be happy until rez is gone entirely, while other people will never be happy until Mass Rez is back.

Yep, I am well aware that I won’t make everyone happy with this…I address this in the OP, pointing out what complaints the proposal addresses…I dont see a way to compromise on Mass Rez. Said more succinctly, i see existing rez as a compromise already - between being able to rez many and not being able to rez at all

In other words, nobody will ever make the entire Mercy fandom (let alone the entire Overwatch playerbase) happy, the best you can do is try to appease to those of us who fall somewhere in between the extremes.

Thats a decent description of my target with this proposal

Have you ever had to wait for a Widow to come to the edge of her ledge on the side you are on even when you can see half or more of her GA target?

so frustrating

woman, i want to help you! Help me help you!

Yeah, almost exclusively on the second point of Gibraltar “I NEED HEALING” (repeated ad nauseum)

"Maam, if you step literally one inch forward you can have your all the heals you want. No, the other forward… try again… "

been there, done that, many times. I even envision Gibraltar specifically when thinking about this

are you saying that the optional use-on-living-target power should only be a cleanse? I think that’d be a bit underpowered, even the cleanse were faster than what I am proposing

Again, my chief concern is that giving an optional burst heal that only comes at the expense of not being able to rez for the duration of the cooldown seems like a big buff.

Adding just a cleanse for nothing doesn’t seem like as big of a buff.

I dont intend the optional power to be as strong as rez. Rez should still be the “best” or “strongest” use, as I see it. The option is just an option that hits some keys others have requested. That said, I can definitely see players preferring to keep the Reincicle alive (so he can then pound th Mei into the dirt) than rez him afterwards

I actually expect a few folks to respond with questions about my sanity or whether I am off my meds, since everyone (I do mean everyone) I have heard speak of changing her healing rate wants it increased, with me the only one I know of saying “yeah lets go ahead and nerf that sucker”

HA! I’d only question your sanity if your proposal involved 40HPS at a flat healing rate.
Once you get past the hurdle of realizing that 40HPS only applies to the top 25% of a character’s health pool, you realize that you’ll be healing at her current rate just as often. And at the buffed rate that so many people are asking for the other 50% of the time.

I dont think some people will continue reading after “40 HPs/s base healing”

but yeah