Nah, I definitely agree with Puckmen in this one, Sombra’s Gameplay loop changed from hit and run and being an annoyance to becoming an assassin. She definitely is a big rework.
He’s talking about OW1 Sombra’s buffs, not the OW2 rework. Throughout all of OW1 Sombra was a hit and run character and never was her gameplay changed through her buffs. Puckmen’s entire argument is that the entire OW1 roster was “reworked” because some of them got buffed a little bit. Like he legitimately tried to say Orisa having an increased projectile speed on halt counted as a rework and not a number tweak buff. OW2 Sombra though is obviously reworked into being an assassin who can actually afford to stay in the fight without guaranteed death.
1 Like
Oh, ok. Nevermind then, I didnt read the room. In that case I agree I can only remember Symmetra and Torbjorn as reworks during ow1.
yes that is what I said, be it also no. Because like the whole castle was getting over ran by bots that were specifically made to counter charges and barriers. Which is why the captain went full hammer aggro at the end.
As the barrier gave out anyway. Like really dam fast.
Actual rien lines:
A fine day for charging and hitting things!
Together, we’ll strike them down!
Reinhardt is the name, glory is the game!
Ha! They always think they can beat me. And I always prove them wrong!
Where’s my lucky hammer? Ah, I’m holding it!
Feel my power!
Hardly broke a sweat.
I mean any tank does that, barrier or not. Its just not a good idea to burn its health early for things. When you can use the map to do most of the work for ya.
And when your in range, you most need to eat the big cooldowns and do smaller repositions, buffer healing so you have more armor.
And just doing those things you give your team a lot of room to do things. Doubly so when the enemy needs to back track away from your hammer.
Like your team is at an inherit disadvantage if your not actively being a damage threat, as the enemy will push up around the barrier if your not actively forcing them out of their position.
Winston can be he really isn’t hitting much over then a single charge beam while jumping.
Ball needs to flying him self straight into the air to have an mobility and guns out at the same time. As leaving the ball will kill your horizontal mobility. And you can’t knock players back at the same time.
Ram gives up range and his barrier to get a slight walking speed boost. So like ya it’s very similar to charge in that fashion. And has to give up the speed if he wants to block.
Queen yes, but that is just one real example.
Also keep in mind charge is also a stun / knock back / damage tool. Rien isn’t without threat while using it.
The captain went full hammer precisely to save Reinhardt from having a stupid death, and it costed his own, thats why the whole background of Reinhardt and his design is not being a hot head anymore.
Because they were out of position.
Anyway, you can spin it if you want but a shield is purely a defensive tool, helping his team get into a position IS being deffensive. Wrecking Ball on the other hand and Junker Queen are totally offensive.
no. They had a whole swarm of damage sources on them, and well… just blocking wasn’t going to stop them. Doesn’t matter if they were out of position or not, they weren’t going to live playing defensively. The captain had to go full aggro to remove the damage coming in, he pulled a rienhardt.
if he didn’t do that rien would have died. And no one would have lived.
For the most part they were just caught off gaurd with an unknown enemy, that was made to break through their defenses. And the only thing that work was just bashing them outright.
I couldn’t give you a better example
Also old post updated.
No my friend. I dont know how you remember that cinematic but their orders were to retreat. They were retreating and Reinhardt chose to go full berserker, and then this captain went after him. The whole purpose of the crusaders was precisely to defend their soldiers the captain sermoned Reinhardt many times about being a shield rather than a hammer. Again, his whole design is being a defender.
Yeah well of course you have to play with brain when being a tank, that applies to everyone, but certain characters have an easier time at offense and Reinhardt is on the side that lacks most tools of other tanks to being offensive.
Also forcing tanks to be mostly offensive is inherently a thing that came with 5v5, Reinhardt’s kit is the whole proof that the game was originally designed with some anchor tanks and off tanks in mind.
Ball does a strike with the whole enemy team that negates their push and can easily land on their backline, get his shield up and deal some damage before retreating.
Thats not similar in the slightest, Ram’s beam sucks when compared to his fists, he also gets way more durable than most tanks while transformed, is instant, can get his Armor again when the ability cool downs, his walking speed gets increased MASSIVELY and he has way more agency over that than Reinhardt during charge. Also he has an aoe slow and during ult he becomes a walking aoe that makes him more durable. Not comparable at all, he can also retreat back while defending himself or settings a barrier and then try again when his ability comes out of CD.
How are Winston and Ball not real examples of purely offensive tanks?
Yes its a threat, but is a predictable one and exposes himself. One thing that Ram also has over Reinhardt is a smaller hitbox during his transformation and an even smaller one on his regular form.
Yes because his dps duo were behind cover getting shot at recon bastions. The shields held those.
but when the orisa/turret bastions started pushing in like a large hoard…
The barriers didn’t do much for long.
your completely missing out on of events here.
The scenerio changed.
Like ya you can hold barrier against chip damage, but not under heavy fire as it will break almost immediately.
rien has more damage / elim tools then most of the heroes in the game.
He has three damage sources, and ult that sets those up while giving alot of space to do so.
Like your being blinded by the big blue square my dude, if you think he can’t get kills. Or be aggressive.
Just a question. Do you think this was smarter than using a shield?
Because this is what happens when Rein charges wildly most of the time.
Dude waisted his barrier taking chip damage, and couldn’t use it to block the ult.
like this is very much why you don’t just hang their with the barrier up. And instead let the map keep the damage off you till moments like this happen.
I feel like any odd-number format is just going to create insane role imbalance. 5v5 as constructed means tanks are either broken raid bosses or horsecrap useless. The queue time thing I genuinely don’t think matters if you are committed to making fun characters in each role (looking mainly at you, tank). OW1 tanks were – if we’re being honest – really boring to play. OW2 has a few pretty fun and dynamic tanks (JQ, Doom, Dva, to name a few). I think 5v5 means you have to push the limits of balance just to justify the format, and that to me is a bigger and never-ending issue than just accepting that games will take a few extra minutes to queue up.
I’d gladly wait 5 min per game just to enjoy the finished product more.
1 Like
I’m late…
but if you’re going to sit here and say that those buffs to bap, brig, and cass in october 2020 wasn’t “major balance changes” you are moronic.
Hyperbole doesn’t make you right. Thank goodness the forums aren’t in charge of anything, or we’d have an entirely forgettable game that just does what every other game does.
What Brig buffs?
It was nerfed down to 150hp, buffed back to 175hp, then nerfed back down to 150hp.
https://i.imgur.com/OEMFRFI.png
https://www.esportstales.com/overwatch/list-all-hero-updates-and-balance-changes
Otherwise you gonna tell me the difference between a hard meta and many metas is a wider Bap window that costs 15% more ult charge?
Or are you gonna admit that the October 2020 patch hype was mostly a placebo?
We agree on this one, I just found It hilarious how he didnt just take cover.
For the most they should have been playing around the small room to the left of them, and cycling between three doors. As it would have given him direct access to the enemy back line.
And could easily get free charges and melee hits on supports and dps from their. And doing so taking a lot of attention off the main the lane where their team would be spilling in from.
Bap getting more dmg and more healing.
Brig getting her HP up to 175
Cass going up to 225
We are not about to sit here and play ignorant when EVERYONE has already stated countless times how good the october 2020 patch was til they up’d and ruined it with this specific balance update.
You are wrong. Move on.
Brig did not have 175hp in December 2020.
https://i.imgur.com/OEMFRFI.png
That happened before the October 2020 patch
https://i.imgur.com/tirkH5c.png
Bap got a variety of nerfs and buffs.
https://i.imgur.com/m93RV23.png
https://www.esportstales.com/overwatch/list-all-hero-updates-and-balance-changes
How about using the LITERAL OVERWATCH PATCH NOTES.
Whatever website you’re using it’s wrong.
I’m looking at the OFFICIAL blizzard overwatch patch notes website.
Cass went up to 225, the exact same patch as bap and brig got buffed. And it was this patch for a fact, because this specific patch was where they say “this is the first time ever we’re changing HP’s by increments of 25”…
No one cares about december 2020. The damage was already done from the changes. They already screwed the game.
he got buffed. Became meta. Game got screwed.
It’s very simple.
Do you honestly think that makes a difference?
https://i.imgur.com/NGHXGdp.png
So you can’t even compare two near identical patches?
But you think comparing October 2020 patch to every other patch makes sense?
Isn’t that just refusing to admit that you’re wrong?
1 Like