GOATS was nice because unless you were actually playing the meta (which very few people did–contrary to what some folks say, GOATS barely ever even made it out of Master’s), hero diversity was actually pretty decent. It was even better in Double Barrier honestly, with literally every tank except Winston and DVa being viable in mid ranks (and Winston’s never been super viable there anyway), most of the Supports (minus Zen and Brigitte, of whom the former is again not ever incredibly viable), and a pretty wide spread of DPS were viable, too (even some heroes like Symmetra and Torbjorn were decent).
Unless you were at the top end, Double Barrier pre-tank overhaul was probably the most diverse period in Overwatch history in terms of hero choice, and it’s not like the top ranks really ever have much diversity anyway so was just a big shame IMO to castrate it, but gotta make OWL “fun to watch” and pay the bills (would’ve been solved by just separating balance for ladder and OWL, but I digress)
It was a mistake to add Brig and the devs also know that now.
It would be interesting instead of hard countering dive we just nerfed it instead.
But then again dive was dead before Brig was added, double sniper was dominating at the end of first OWL. Then Brig was added and goats was formed to counter that.
I didn’t like dive because if you were a support it was basically respawn sim, even if you were a good support, being dove by 3 people was almost certain death.
Genji’s and tracers didn’t dive alone, they’d dive together, and its really hard to win a 1v2 as a support
Dive was trash, and almost only wanted back by people who played dive heroes who were strong enough at the time to require answers like Brigitte and Moira. So sure. Bring Dive back, make it strong, and when we get another Moira, I will laugh at the dive hero players whose shortsighted selfishness cost them in the long run.
Brig countered not just Tracer and Genji but most dps are well. The instant armor she could give with repair pack and rally also killed S76. People wondered why someone like Repear did so bad when Brig was meta. After all…he should be a tank buster right? yeah but armor hurts him as well and the amount Brig could provide was completely busted. Sombra’s dps was completely useless against Brig and she became nothing but a ult bot.
Not by much. It didn’t change much for him. Tanks already had lots of armor, and even with Brig in the game, there have been countless threads about Reaper ruining tank fun.
The lesson should be to not make a broken hero who kills the game lol. The lesson should be to balance heroes who are too strong. I made posts back when dive was meta. I made suggestions like increasing Tracer’s spread or giving Genji 150 HP. Many people, even those who played dive dps, made these suggestions. Blizzard ignored them all. You’re acting like this was all dps players fault when support players were calling for new heroes/abilities that could defend against flankers more easily. So if you’re going to blame dps (which I think is fair) I think support players should get some blame too…
But hindsight is 20-20. I think Moira/Brig should have never been released and Genji/Tracer should have been nerfed instead…but we’ll never know. The only thing we can do is try and pressure the devs into not making that mistake again.
Support players didn’t ask for dive to be dominant, though. And conveniently everyone who advocates for dive through rose-colored glasses are the ones who got to enjoy the free pressure because counters largely didn’t exist.
Moira releasing was fine, she had basically zero impact on Dive except making pubstomping with Tracer/Genji via smurfing a little more challenging.
Brigitte was only as strong as she was because those who played them basically begged Blizzard not to nerf them and to just introduce counters instead. But, as Jeff said, “be careful what you wish for.” I think if they had nerfed Tracer and Genji like they should’ve, then Brigitte would’ve been toned down much more before she even ever hit PTR and it wouldn’t have been a big deal.
hard counters…no. There have always been soft counters though and I think the game functions better with them. Brig used to hard counter Tracer. Now it’s a skilled matchup and makes the game feel better for both. I think hard counters are terrible for the game
We’ll never agree on this lol. I think it was a skilled matchup. Ana vs Genji was beautiful. If she lands the sleep, he’s dead. If she misses, she probably dies. But it was largely based on the skill of the two players. And someone like Mercy enables dive heroes just as much as she’s “countered” by them. This is a team game and I don’t think anyone should hard counter anyone. If you’re a support and a dps dives you, your team should help you just like you help them. This isn’t deathmatch…
“Skill matchup” means an even fight decided by skill. It does not and will never refer to a match-up where one side is heavily favored.
Also, your assertion that your team can just help you doesn’t really work with dive. Tanks are shielding the front and advancing or pushing back against an advance. DPS are then doing damage to aid in that push/pushback. It commits less resources for the dive heroes to go in on the supports, putting the defensive team at a disadvantage.
Dive is honestly responsible for much of the mess the game’s in currently. Take off the rose-colored glasses and you’ll see it.
i know alot of people tried to mimic pros by playing dive and dealing with 3 or 4 flying enemies might have been a bummer.
which is why i was always wanting dva and tracer nerfs
which is absolutely normal.
if the enemy team are good enough to be coordinated and yours wasnt to defend you, then they diserved to win and get to a higher rank, then leave you to play against lesser teams, thatz how the matchmaking works and thats why smurfing is wrong (says the smurf mercy player that i am)
having brig and moira able to 1v2 doesnt answer the problem, it just forces you to play moira against them, while keeping em too strong to be buffed (which is why they never buffed genji)
was just a big shame IMO to castrate it, but gotta make OWL “fun to watch” and pay the bills (would’ve been solved by just separating balance for ladder and OWL, but I digress)