Tastefully nerfing Widowmaker. Can it be done? I think so

General Discussion
1

The problem with Widowmaker, as far as I’m concerned, is that she’s “unfair”. Not “overpowered” but literally unfair. Her primary function is a warningless, infinite range, hitscan OHKO with only a 1 second cooldown. Every other hero in the game plays by a set of rules that Widowmaker does not. She is literally the only one with all of these concepts combined.

The “They have a sniper!” mechanic is either buggy, or severely flawed, in that heroes will yell it out when Widow is not in your personal LOS, or they won’t yell it out at all because they already have within the past few minutes and whatever internal cooldown it’s on prevents them from saying it again.

This mechanic should be scrapped, it honestly adds to the tilting Widowmaker causes because it’s insult to injury. You only ever hear it when Widowmake can’t even see you, or your own hero says it and on the second word gets OHKO’d before they can finish speaking.

I’m aware we can’t make her presence painfully obvious, seeing as she will become incredibly niche if she’s unable to pull off her shots because she’s seen before she can even charge them up.

Instead, what I propose is a mechanic that allows widowmaker herself to earn the ability to pop off a shot without warning, and punishing her for misuse by making her location apparent

It takes 0.33 seconds for widowmaker to scope in, and 0.9 seconds to reach maximum charge. 1.03 seconds to confirm a squishy kill. Well I propose that Widowmaker has a 0.47 second window after this period to land a warningless shot. once that point is hit, a 20 meter long, thin, transparent beam of red light will apparate into view from Widowmaker’s location outwards, and will become more opaque over a 0.5 second period, once full it will not dissipate until Widowmaker comes out of scope.

When Widowmaker does come out of scope, or fires a shot it will not vanish instantly, rather it will dissipate over a 0.3 second period.

This change gives widowmaker a full 1.5 seconds to land a truly warningless shot, and she still has some stealth before the 2 second mark when the warning line is fully opaque. It also gives players a short period to know where the shot came from after it’s already been fired (replacing the already present laser trail her bullets leave behind)

With this, Widowmaker will have an opportunity to kill without warning, as intended by her design, but hesitation will be punished with visibility. It also subtly buffs her in return in that her warning laser is only 20 meters long, and not the entire trail of her bullet.

Thoughts?

28 Likes
2

Add a lens flare and or a laser [think Talon Sniper] when her sniper hits a certain percentage of charge. Maybe about 30% to allow for a little bit of a warning.

40 Likes
3

Delete her like mei :smiling_face_with_three_hearts: :heart_eyes: :crazy_face:

6 Likes
4

I feel like she has gotten more than a handful of nerfs already, no?

I feel like anymore and she’ll be -F tier

10 Likes
5

They already did by putting the charged display underneath of the Eliminated, again. You see they already had it on top after the first time I noticed it. Bugs will be bugs.

6

no plz

at least widow takes skill D:

but tbf this new mei takes somewhat skill

7

Maybe when she holds a fully charged shot her lens could glow brightly to give out her location

4 Likes
8

The only meaningful nerf she has received in a long time is that her ultimate ends if she dies. She has actually received quite a few distinguishing buffs, like her venom mine revealing enemies, and her grapling hook cooldown being reduced.

and I also reiterate, she’s not overpowered, she’s unfair. too different concepts. In the same way mass rez was not overpowered, it was “unfair”. Balance changes can be made in an attempt to improve the fun players have, and a LOT of players find Widowmaker un-fun

8 Likes
9

That’d do something to help tanks, DPS not so much.

At around 60% charge a Widow can one shot a squishy.

3 Likes
10

Dunno, I think that the bright red bullet trail combined with the not-so-silent sniper rifle sound that follows is a pretty good indication of “There’s a sniper of their team” and “The shot came from that location”.

How MORE ‘apparent’ can Widowmaker’s sniping spot be? A big arrow pointing down at her hovering above her head?

6 Likes
11

The problem with this is that one player, quite literally, has to bite the bullet for her warning to come into existence. One player has to literally die in order for teammates to know Widowmaker’s location. That’s not fun for anybody but Widowmaker, and it’s certainly not abiding by the same set of rules other OHKO heroes have. Doomfist is loud as hell, Hanzo has a travel time and travel arc, Roadhog is loud as hell and huge, Rein literally can’t even make it happen without being incredibly obvious.

Widowmaker just… does it

19 Likes
12

Position yourself better, problem solved.

4 Likes
13

Problem not solved, clearly unhelpful commentary. Next.

16 Likes
14

Yeah just don’t walk out of spawn 4head

20 Likes
15

What I don’t get, is the 300dmg. 240dmg is still potent (like Hanzo), but it isn’t anti-tank levels like 300 (half of 600hp). Let me put it another way too. If you had nano on you as Tracer, Widow can still one shot you. An ultimate, on a hero, pointless. If it was 240dmg, Tracer would still have 30hp left, and be able to recall.

So, how is 300dmg fair? Because to me, it just isn’t.

2 Likes
16

Oh please.

Sure people get shot, but if there’s a body shot, or the shot hits a shield, or the shot misses, you KNOW where it came from, unless you didn’t look at the same direction when the shot was fired. And chances are the next second or two will have another shot to wake up your senses alright.

If you ‘bite the bullet’ and die, teammates next to you will have seen it. That bright red line is visible by everyone. If you were literally alone trying to duel her on your own then that is your own fault, don’t blame it on Widow. Still, if that happens it’s up to you to communicate Widow’s last known location to your teammates. It’s a team-based game, ideally. Stay behind Rein, or Orisa, or Sigma, or Road, or Zarya and be careful when you press Tab and check what’s the enemy team composition and see that they have a Widowmaker.

The gist is this: there is currently already enough cues for your to realize that 1) There’s a Widow, 2) Where she was when that one last shot was fired, and 3) Not to show up in that last known line of sight without your teammates before charging in.

If those cues aren’t enough for you then why should the very character herself pay for it? How easy should everyone in the cast have it against Widow exactly? If she’s 100% basically ‘revealed’ at all times the moment she becomes immobile and everyone knows where she is due to all sorts of spoon-fed easing mechanics then she’s not even going to have any niche anymore. People will just pick her because of her sexy voice and skintight suit (and it’s probably already the case for many so-called Widow mains out there as it is).

8 Likes
17

Switch heroes then? Go with your team?

1 Like
18

I think it comes down more to a lack of counter play, have you ever tried to counter snipe widow as Ashe? Often times it feels like she has no flinch.

Like, she has more recoil from her gun firing than flinch on headshot.

2 Likes
19

Make her have the same disadvantages a Sniper has in general:

  • High recoil
    Her scope barely moves when she takes a shot. You can have the recoil scale with the amount of charge she builds
  • Low fire rate
    She can get max charge nearly every second. Perhaps charge gets put on hold until the reticle resettles
  • High flinch when shot while scoped
    Again the reticle barely moves when she’s getting shot at, it’s so insignificant she can swipe you without worry

The one way to nerf without touching her numbers.

9 Likes
20

Big "if"s there

Yes but you already suffered the unfair price, and 5v6 is often a lost teamfight, especially early in the game

If I’m dueling her, I know where she is. there’s no need for a warning, this clearly isn’t about that

So when I play a hero that makes use of flanks I’m just screwed then, It’s “justified” for my literal death to be the warning to my teammates?

Also, when the game starts there’s a short period where you can’t see your enemy team’s compisition. I have died MANY times to a literal unpresented widowmaker getting a freebie on me.

With Doomfist, Roadhog, Hanzo, and Reinhardt I can make predictions ahead of time and reflexively counter their attempts at killing me in the moment. With Widowmaker, she could be any one of many locations, and it’s literal guesswork. Guesswork isn’t fun.

I feel like you’re gravely missing the point of this proposal. I want Widowmaker to get well-aimed instakills. But I want it to feel earned. NOT like I was killed randomly.

Is randomness fun?

9 Likes