goats existed bc of supports but og dive existed because dva was op
No they are not. Tanks define all the matches , not dps , not healers, tanks.
It’s really weird that people keeping saying that like it’s 2017 or something, ignoring all the changes to the game.
Lack of perspective I guess.
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Every meta except double shield was originated thanks to supports being OP, such as dive being mercy revolved (including SOLO HEALING) for so long, and goats existing thanks to brig.
Time to move the attention from “tanks were always op” to “supports were always op”
Beyblade meta? = Ana release
Moth meta with mercy?
Goats with brig?
Quad tank existing thanks to moira release?
Double shield coming back despite shield nerf thanks to bap zen being absurdly strong?
Besides OG double shield forced by sig and double bubble, most metas existed thanks to dps or supports really contrary to popular belief. The orisa dva bunker atlanta used is largely thanks to cree, torb, brig and moira being tankiest in their roles and not thanks to orisa and dva (as seen it can be easily changed to orisa sig or rein dva).
In the psuedo-goats with echo played on june joust, tanks could change but lucio moira reaper echo didnt.
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No they didn’t change
One team played Ball
Blizzard is effectively changing the TANK role via replacing such w/ the New & Improved MEGA BOSS role in OW2…. basically.
I do feel like Tanks have been restrained over the years tbh. I mean Rein is the same damn character he has always been since Day 1 all while DPS go through endless Buffs, it seems, more often than not.
Regardless of 2/2/2 I still feel like Tanks are less oppressive than ever before atm.
Ik but the issue is when tanks aren’t Overpowered they aren’t fun. When tanks are Overpowered the game isn’t fun.
It’s a lose - lose for blizzard
McCree was and still is one of the most broken and easy to use heroes, he was so broken at one point that they had to nerf him a long time ago even when the tanks were strong and the mass ress existed, now that the tanks are almost useless they buffeted him and they left it almost as it was before, the truth seems to me that blizzard only favors the dps because whenever they take something from them they compensate them, on the other hand when nerfing to some other role they take things away without compensating their other weaknesses there are two very clear examples brigitte and mercy, then they keep buffeting hereos that always shone in the OWL and were always excellent options like ashe and especially mccree, I don’t know but the game is forgetting its counter pick mechanics, that not only dps can cause casualties and that not all supports are mercy that they have to stay behind without doing anything, and the truth seems to me unreasonable that the shields would nerf so much, but when they had the perfect counter, sym, She was the punishment for the double shield and what they did they cried because they thought it was op and they nerfed the shields and to her, people do not know how to play or do not understand the concept of counter pick that is the big problem of the game
Ashe was only an excellent option for 1 season.
Blizzard knows that every time tanks and supports are too strong the game doesn’t feel good to play so that’s why they barely compensate
As a tank main myself, and being a bery open minded person I can see your point of view. In a game like overwatch tanks have been the back bone of most comps. I would say they are the most important role most of the time. Not neccesarily overpowered or strong but when tanks die or have bad coordination it makes the game a lot harder.
I don’t see tanks as a balance problem currently but rather a fundamental part of the game design.
With overwatch 2 tanks become more brawly will see them less team reliant and therefore teams less reliant on them. So perhaps the feeling of tanks being strong in some peoples eyes and weak in others, may be changed with the release of overwatch 2.
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You’re changing your argument here.
First it was “Tanks were too strong and a problem”
Now it’s “Tanks + Supports were too strong and a problem”
You have walls of text dissecting why goats + double shield weren’t evidence that tank was OP, and you’ve ignored all of them. I’m sorry, but you don’t have a strong argument here.
Tracer has been meta more often and for longer duration than any single tank in the roster, period. Widow has defined more metas than any single character in the game.
Just because something is meta doesn’t mean that role is now magically OP.
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D.va would like to know your location
If we’re talking OWL, you might have an argument.
If you’re talking GM, absolutely not. Imho, GM is a better indicator of game balance than OWL because OWL is almost always extremely polarized in picks and is seasonal, not constant.
D.va was off meta HARD for more than a year. She was the bottom picked tank in GM for months on end. Tracer has never had that dubious honor, she’s been at least top 4 for almost all of her existience, and is usually top 3 or 2.
D.va was popular in GOATS and Dive, but please note, D.va was actually kicked out of GOATS in the second half of the meta in favor of a Sombra/Mei.
Please, can you put some actual time and thought into making arguments instead of going for “GOTCHA!” approach every time?
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Let’s ignore op tracer, and how strong and oppressive hitscan was during double shield to push our biased agenda.
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GOATs, Slambulance and Triple/Quad tank are explicitly all because of supports, or at least joint guilt between tanks and supports. GOATs could not exist without Brig and Lucio overlapping heals, up until Baptiste permitted for even more AOE heals.
Slambulance was just a counter dive comp that usually only worked for 1 push on some maps, can’t even really call it a meta.
Triple/Quad tanks was built off of Ana’s insane healing capacity, but were also so early in the games lifespan that people didn’t understand the value of high ground. If they did it probably wouldn’t have caught on.
It’s also unfair to say Dive was a tank thing when Genji and Tracer were such a huge part of it. It was more of an unholy synergy between Winston, Dva, Genji, Tracer and Zen than being squarely on any individual part. It also predated the massive increases in sustain we’ve seen since then.
Other than double barrier, tanks are only a problem when a busted support gives them so much sustain that their lower ranges are irrelevant because they can force the closer ranged fights.
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Only some teams did that and even then she was still the 2nd most picked.
Imagine if she never got kicked off than she would probably have 1.4k hours in OWL. 1.4.
That’s pretty dumb
You are fundamentally unwilling to actually engage people.
I already said why GM is a better balance indicator than OWL, and you ignored it.
Several people have given you entire walls on why GOATS was the fault of Supports, not tanks. Read the one right above this post. You refuse to respond to those.
You clearly don’t care about having an actual conversation, you’re basically saying “I’m right, and so I’m ignoring anything else.”
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I mean we can blame supports and it’s valid but Tanks were just as much to blame
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But they werent. Historically supports released are #1 reason to drastic change of metas (or supports reworked like mercy)
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