Both roles feel pretty awful when trying to kill flyers. Makes for a very bad experience when teammates aren’t willing to help contest them. Give both roles better options to deal with flyers or nerf flyers somehow.
The above is just my opinion, feel free to disagree, but if you do please remember to be kind.
Not real counters but dva and ball can somewhat deal with them, maybe also hog since you could try hooking them when they’re falling or sometimes even in the air if your good with hook. Also ana and bap for supports.
But all of this falls apart if they are pocketed by a mercy so, good luck with that. Regardless, flying heroes should be a team effort to take them down, specially if they are pocketed by a mercy.
And this calls for the dps to actually do their thing.
Current counters lay mostly within the dps hero pool.
-S76
-Widow
-Bastion
-Ashe
-Soljorn(somewhat)
-Mccree
-Torbjorn
Hell a mirrormatch will do wonders too with another Echo/Pharah getting pocketed by most healers.
Even Reaper and Tracer are somewhat decent against a Pharmercy combo.
Like dude…covering for threatening dps is the dps job. Not the support because otherwise how do they utilize their utility for their team? The tank? The tank is solo dude…
It is a DPS duty.
Flying enemies are OP when your teammates won’t look up.
Flying enemies are a joke when your teammates do look up.
Yeah it just feels bad when the dps can only play junkrat or sym and they won’t swap, so Pharmercy just destroys everything. Meanwhile the dps are just praying that if they ignore her hard enough, maybe she’ll get bored and swap.
Ana is a pretty good option against flyers.
Bap is decent as well.
Zen is not great against them directly, but his discord is a good help for your teammates.
Same with Mercy. Though she can do some damage with valk at least.
Ana and Baptiste are both good options against an avarage Phara player. For tanks i dont know.
In general in a team with an ok aim and a decent sense of punishing enemy for a bad positioning she is no more of a threat then other heroes.
Pharamercy on the other hand is a design flaw, that gives too much reward for too little effort.
Already have good options.
D.va, Roadhog, Sigma, Wrecking Ball. and Winston
Supports have Baptiste and Ana, Moira and Zenyatta can also work.
Good choices, overall.
Not a great choice, as he is a bit big and less flexible in dealing with aerial targets. He can work well, though.
Ashe can work. Sojourn cannot. Her spread hampers her chances are reliably hitting the target, forcing a heavy reliance on Charged Railgun Shots, which requires ammo. There’s better choices.
Remains a solid choice.
Not as good as he used to be. Only takes two rockets to kill his turrets, and those arcing projectiles of his aren’t great against Echo.
Junkrat is a pretty solid option against fliers, though there are better choices.
Pharah + Mercy doesn’t really do much. It’ll still take 2 or more direct shots with Damage-boost, the only reason the combo works is because Mercy is actually healing Pharah, which, if you still don’t understand becomes a 2v1 situation and you’ll need extra help to deal with this. Mercy pairing with anyone generally offers this level of power and return value; which is why it is so important for Mercy to constantly be switching between targets.
I dont see this the same way as you do.
As a support vs flankers I usually stick to a high ground, and vs anything else I just play on a ground around a tight corners - mercy pocketing someone doesnt change it.
Pharamercy is a different ball game though becouse it has both damage and the movement without a clear counterplay (style wise not a hero wise)
To add to a dps pool discussion- Echo is crazy effective vs phara.
HUH?
Why are you acting like Baptiste/Ana don’t exist?
Yes, its easier to do with DPS, because they have more options but it is NOT a DPS task at all.
So Ana and Bap need to heal, time their super strong abilties at the other enemy heros, and still down a ln enemy threat all at the same time while defending themselves so they can do both?
I’m sorry what is DPS doing that they can’t help with one of these three things?
Like all you’re doing is probably shooting at stuff! Like mostly the wrong stuff too!
There’s no such thing as “dps job” or “dps duty”. Next time a flanker is harassing you and you need some peeling your dps could just say: “Dealing with flankers is not my job”.
Yes. That’s what good supports are capable of. They have the tools for it. You either lose the game or take the matter into your own hands.
Dva is the only reliable counter to that. DM eats her missles and brings more downtime. Then boosting towards her is very deadly against a Pharmercy.
Roadhog has a mid range hook…it is projectile has travel time and a 6 secone cooldown. Other than that he’s got a projectile shotgun…he’s not it even if you’re good with his hooks because if the Pharah and Mercy are just as good they’ll play outside of hook range. Not a counter.
Sigma…mid range. Are we seriously thinking a predictable boulder and midrange explosives are enough to down a Pharah? You’d clip her but you have be at a certain range. Pharah has more mobility and can play outside that range. You’re more of a sitting duck with lack of mobility.
Okay I main WBall…first off not my job. I’ a dive tank. Instead of getting distracted and grazing the Pharah I can be diving and force Pharah to fly solo often. Yes I can help with her but my focus is better on the majority of the enemy team not chasing after a fly.
Winston? I play this tank too as a secondary. Are you telling me that me jumping at a Pharah is good enough to counter a Pharah Mercy?! Dude…Winston can defend against it but you’re not gonna kill anything anytime soon. Lack of range wasting your jumps on tgem and getting distacted. Then saving bubble specifically onlt for Pharah is a horrible move.
Then the supports…like omfg why are we making supports counter here?! They need to heal and use their abilities for the team. They can help but they have other things to do already. Also Zen is horrible. He can discord but with a projectile weapon trying to down a bunch of fliers? Dude…
First off that’s rude. Its everyone’s job. The tank is in the front and the support is already busy.
Dps is free to duel those flankers…so why aren’t they? What’s stopping them?
As an offtank main from OW1, I cannot be at the front and backlines all the time. Even with a dive tank.
There is two DPS players there and their job is to secure kills. If taking out a flanker gives us an advantage…then why aren’t they doing their job?
It is not the supports job to kill things and the tank has a plate full by being solo. Quit forcing the rest of your team to take on so much duties just so you can play COD.
I know supports are the most influential role…but they are also the hardest…you cannot be seriously sitting here telling the supports to deal with a troublesome dps is their job entirely.
Understandable.
Enjoy the defeat screen against Pharah-Mercy if you still fell like it’s not your job too.
Oh I deal with em. Or help with them.
Just because I can’t play Dva doesn’t mean I’m helpless but it would be so much EASIER if dps actually killed something…you know it is their main job to do so…
So why don’t you?! Its baffling.
Dps: “I’m not gonna kill the Pharah Mercy.”
Like bro…
Ana and Bap are very strong vs flyers. Zen is workable.
Dva is great at negating flyers’ value.
Ram and Orisa are workable.
And when we say “flyers”, there really only are two. But in reality people tend to want a counter, because they don’t want to change their playstyle - aka the easy brain-off type of approach (not talking you here, just the general intent of desiring counters in general).
To clarify my point, I could ask a comparable question: Tanks need better options against ranged hitscan. Ask yourself, what tank realistically can deal with a S76 zooming around the map, abusing every single crossfire sightline opening at his disposal, and running away before anyone can force a fight with him? Answer: no one.
What tank can deal with the Ashe sitting far behind her enemy tank on whatever high ground she pleases, gunning people down from above and dynamiting choke points to farm Bob every fight? No one.
The only real reason flyers tend to be picked out, is simply because they stand out more than other ground-based heroes - and ofc especially in lower ranks because ground based characters tend to be played poorly and within easy range of where the fights happen, thus there are far more opportunities to punish their poor positions. Here, flyers by nature nudge players subconsciously towards less exposed positions since they are centered around NOT being on the ground close to enemy tanks’ effective area of threat. Likewise, why do people keep getting logged by Hanzo arrow spam? It’s not because the Hanzo is so powerful. It’s because people default to bad positions, standing clumped up, in predictable sight lines where even if the Hanzo misses his target, chances are the arrow will simply hit someone standing besides his target instead - and these unintended targets stand in close firing range of each other, because nothing in their hero kits nudges them to NOT play poorly (unlike flyers that don’t incentivize playing from predictable spammable angles). And given the opportunity to play poorly, most people will by default do so.
So TLDR, flyers by nature nudges less skilled players to not play in very suboptimal positions, hence they appear as harder to deal with on average. This is a general player gamesense issue, not a hero type issue.
this is 100% why dps exist and why you should start talking to them in chat instead of even concepting a post
Not true, I actually enjoy taking on flying heroes as support but if something else happens (and something usually does) they’re not my top priority. There’s one role that only has the job description “kill things” and it’s not tank. So maybe get off junkrat and help out.