Tank Counterswap Meta

Here are the reasons why countering a tank is so much stronger than doing the same thing to a DPS or healer:

1. Tanks are the most interactive role

Tanks spend the most time interacting with the enemy team of any role. They are up front, with a big hitbox, charging at the enemy team. A lot of the time, tanks are taking on abilities from 5 other players at once (and some abilities from their 4 teammates).

So if the enemy goes zen, discord is unavoidable for your tank.

However, the Zen can limit how much they interact with the enemy by playing out of sight lines, playing further back, sitting behind tanks or DPS, etc.

2. Countering a tank means countering an entire role.

Imagine if one hero swap invalidated all the enemy’s healing and support abilities. It would be incredibly oppressive. That is essentially what is happening when a tank gets countered: your spacemaker can’t make space.

3. A lot of the abilities that would shore up the tanks’ weaknesses were on other tanks.

Discord/anti on rein->zarya bubble. Massive bastion/reaper damage on winston->defense matrix. Snipers eating up orisa->sigma shield and grasp.

These combos were ALSO oppressive. But now that they are gone, the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction.

4. Even though the tank line is weaker than ow1, tanks themselves are stronger.

In a vacuum, a tank is worth somewhere in between 1-2 players (not inclusive). So even though a Sombra pick is really bad into a 4 hitscan team, keeping enemy ball hacked is still well worth it.


Hope this helps people understand why people complain about tank counter swaps, even though counter swapping has always been a part of overwatch.

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Brother, the ranked system is inflated, the devs have fumbled on the PvE and everyone it´s mad at everything

just lock the tank you like the most and play him and learn to play him around counters. Surely tank counterswap exists, but if you don´t play at GM level most of the time you can just ignore it

It doesn´t matter if the hero counters you as long as you´re a better player than the guy that´s trying to counter you, that´s not always work since we need to bring the whole team composition into the equation, but work´s most of the time

Though, i disagree with the whole “swaping and countering is part of Overwatch”, the devs themselves admit that it is a lot more common for people to have their mains and play them in basically all situations, even GM´s are like that

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So what you are saying is…

if you are better than the lobby, just keep playing your hero until you reach a rank where you have to Counterswap to compete. Cause even GMs have to Counterswap, right? So it’s not something you will ever escape.

“It doesn´t matter if the hero counters you as long as you´re a better player than the guy that´s trying to counter you,”

This is a messy statement, but the flex is almost always playing their counter hero at a lower level than you are playing your main. They maintain their rank by making sure they always have an easy matchup on a hero they are bad at. This skill comes from being able to play lots of heroes this way.

They aren’t worse players, but a plat Zen will beat a diamond rein, a plat sombra will bead a diamond ball, etc. So saying that you just need to be a better player is kinda like telling a diamond ball to just play better than a diamond Sombra means that they needs to play like a masters to break even.

Which is totally fine if they are trying to climb btw. But if they are trying to have fun, it means half their games will be blowouts and half their games will be stomps.

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Tank is the most tilting role, period. It’s why I barely play tank. And I find that tank feels even more tilting in OW2 than OW1 because of this reason: constant counter-swapping from the enemy team.

The whole enemy are constantly trying to counter you one way or another. But you don’t have the second tank to make up for your weakness.

In OW1, if my co-tank went ball or sigma, I could’ve went hog. If they went zarya, I could’ve went reinhardt, winston or ball. Now, I’m just on my own and must pick one tank that I think works the best on the map/team-composition I’m playing with and cross my fingers that I won’t get hard countered by the enemy.

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This and I also find the additional pressure of being the only tank unappealing. The margin for error is much smaller while your impact is either massive or very little. Really no in between.

I really miss sharing the job with another. I miss tank synergy so much.

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I agree with this, however in order to fix this they would need to force a dominant tank meta like in s1 where everyone only can play one tank because they were ridiculously op.

Nope. They’d need to rework the game to remove tankillers, and remove all counters or soften them to be REALLY soft counters where all heroes are more generalists and less niche.

This is what they SAID they would do when OW2 released, but they never did it.

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Pretty much exactly this. Tanks interact with enemies the most, which means they interact with their counters the most. Therefore, its only fair that their weaknesses are de-emphasized.

How is it beneficial for the game that a sym or zarya can completely ignore dva’s one tank ability? Or Sombra can hack every single one of Hammond’s engages? Or that doomfist slows himself down while tanking so that sleep dart literally can’t miss?

Other roles have these weaknesses too ofc, but nobody bothers because other roles have 1) universal counter play to counters (by avoiding them) and 2) it’s just less value.

But if you’re a tank, get ready to have your fun ruined all game, every game.

I mean in the sense everyone got pushed up, do to them removing a system that lowers your rank for not playing for a while.

If it’s one beam that armor will eat up 30 percent of that damage, and usually can get out healed or can simply be outpaced do to it’s short range. And d.va having some of the best mobility in the tank role.

On a side note DM specifically is up a lot more then most other tanks barriers/healing/ and other DM tools, with maybe exception to rien. Be it he can’t do damage and block at the same time.

So if you want to generalize her, your going to have to pull DM’s uptime back a lot.

IN a way, not much has changed. I can go Winston or Rein and have a much, much, much easier time ignoring Sigma and bullying his team.

Only to find out Sigma is paired on either side with Junkrat/Bastion. A HORRIBLE combo to go up against as either Winston or Reinhardt and both are covered by Sigma shield + grasp preventing my own DPS/Supports from getting to them.

You might try to counter a tank, but if the rest of the team counters you back it’ll still be a rough game. WHich is why teamwork is still highly important.

Why bring up armor? It changed with ow2. It blocks bullets, projectiles and beams with the same damage reduction. While bullets and projectiles also get eaten by dm, beams don’t. Why?

Doesn’t this apply to all tanks? Does a fully charged zarya or sym do low damage? Why do shields block beams?

She has as much or less mobility as winston/ball/doom. Why don’t beams ignore Winston bubble, balls overhealth, doomfist block?

Because it has a short duration that runs out even it’s not being shot. She can’t shoot while it’s up, it’s smaller than most barriers and its the only tank ability that dva has.

Yeah sure, if it’s even necessary. It’s not like dva runs over non-beam teams either.

You’re half right. It’s much stronger to counter the tank as a DPS/support than as a tank. You don’t need teamwork for that, though…

One Sombra or Zen or bastion can force a tank swap, no teamwork required.

Beams have a tendency to scale in damage, with their weaker forms being kind well below par. (with exception of mei) So their not as much as an instant threat to d.va. And usually give her time to escape/change targets before Zarya/and sym can rack up to much damage.

Nope a lot of them like Hog, JQ, doom, and zarya don’t have any armor at all. While a wracking ball only has a 100. Meaning their taking the full brunt of beam damage, which will out do a single source of healing without much work.

While d.va with 300 hp of armor, isn’t going to see significant damage from beams for a till they get to full or near full charge.

She has the distinction of being able to course correct and do complete 180’s while flying. While also less likely to get pulled off track by a knock back, as she keeps pushing Forword. While winston, hammon and doom get their mobility from the initial bursts of movement. Which can be knocked around while in air.

Because those abilities are less effective in the case of doom, who can get punished with stuns a knock while blocking. Or up for significantly less time in an overall match in the case of ball and winston.

DM can absorb an infinite amount of damage while up that’s not beams, can stop most stuns short of a punch, and has the ability to layer DM with damage and mobility. Which is unique to her alone.

Missles are a thing, she can still do damage and secure kills for free on something like a low health ana. Who can’t sleep nade or shoot while in dm.

It has a really fast recharge. And is up a lot more then winston’s barrier, or balls self shields. And a 100 times more consistent then dooms overhealth.

Keep in mind most people consider her one of the best tanks in high tiers. She really isn’t weak by any means. And would be loosing a lot of defensive power against more general damage for doing so.

(Should we tell them guys, I think we might hurt their feelings if we did)

aaand this is why I don’t play tank anymore. It’s just a game of constantly switching to dodge an entire team trying to counter you.

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If you get good with a tank, and learn abit about how the match up plays you don’t really have to switch at least much. Like if the full team is countering you sure.

But like in the case of one or two heroes, skill will allow you to play through such.

In d.va’s case a clean solo dive will kill a solo sym before she will ever get her beam charged up, while in the case with zarya you can just fly around her and attack her back line as much as possible.

You can choose to just leave that situation. And if she chases you your team will have a lot easier time with the getting at the small fry.

And if you get a comp to build around you, like a lucio, brig, JQ. Then you most likely have won’t have to worry about the counters bothering you.

Are you really trying to convince me or are you just trying to win an argument? When you say things like “dva has time to escape” and “she has the distinction of being able to course correct”… it makes me wonder if you really thought that those were convincing arguments.

…cause my very first thought (and my entire point) is “those apply to other tanks, but beams don’t ignore their abilities”.

That’s how I feel about your whole response. Not gonna respond to every point individually.

I mean in the context of your quotes and questions yes D.va has a lot more advantages then you think. And doesn’t share many of the weaknesses of Doom, winston, and hammon.

Not to say she is 100% better then them in every sitaution, but their is distinctions and trade off’s between each of the heroes.

Especially if your just comparing their mobility, and defensive tools. As you asked directly.

She is a rather strong tank. Probably a little less so now that JQ has become popular. But is still one of the better options.

Like if you are struggling with a certian match up, just ask how somone in the high ranks are getting around such.

As their is without a doubt d.va one tricks getting around this particular match up on the regular.

I mean you did once already.

The case 90% of the time for me. I’m a good ball main so teams always end up full stacking counters against me.

Thing is, once people catch on to what OP is saying, and many already have, it’s always going to be full teams switching to counter the tank. There’s hardly reason to do anything else. It’s simply the most effective strategy and it’s why OW2 sucks.

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Ah not so much, people only are willing to play a hand full of hero’s. And counter picking is only viable to a certain level of play.

At which point you better know your picks in and out, as your team will expect optimal play. and plan around such.

Or your enemy is going to sniff you out, and punish your lack of extended knowledge.

Be it if the enemy has to hard counter you that much, then your doing dam good. Learn a few tricks from the higher ups. And I bet you won’t have to many problems climbing.

As you have a stong bases already.

What’s your winrate by the way?