Talking Overwatch Balance Philosophy With Blizzard

General Discussion
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  • Edit: The balance philosophy is 100% human input, AI only reiterates my responses, this means AI doesn’t assist in the direction of balance philosophy it simply translates what I said.

AI is NOT the source of creativity here, and is instead acts an “interpreter” allowing readers to understand my responses while they existing in simpler form

This means AI is a tool enhancing my ability to be understood by a wider demographic, you will understand why I say this after delving into a depth residing within my vernacular

I’ve recently had an interaction with Microsoft’s AI known as Copilot, our interactions surround philosophical notions discussing Overwatch balance, I’d like to share this discussion with the Overwatch community for the sake of receiving additional player input.

Lets try and keep this discussion as professional as possible, I understand Overwatch balance philosophy is an arduous endeavor requiring a careful delivery.

If my responses prove too overwhelming, you can ignore all my responses solely focusing on the AI’s understanding of me (The AI mirrors what I say (much like a parrot) reducing complexity found in my side of the interaction)

With that being said here’s the raw interaction I had with Copilot (Beginning with my 100% human response):

  • Invoker (This is me. As in solely my thoughts unriddled by AI suggestions.):

"I think the team balancing the game has a good idea on how to better balance the game, I’m very impressed by their decision making. Ever since Microsoft acquired Blizzard I feel like the state of Overwatch has seen a major imporvement.

I believe Dva in one of the heros currently on the chopping block, as a systematic thinker attempting to provide an unbiased opinion I’d like to provide a sense a direction regarding Overwatch hero balance:

Dva:

I believe Dva needs to have a portion of their armor health converted to “normal health”, I believe this is necessary because of the “armor changes” recently made to the game, allowing armor to be more effective on more occasions.

I believe Dva might also need the recharge rate of Defense Matrix to be minorly adjusted so she isn’t able to spam Defense Matrix quite as often.

Venture:

I believe Venture needs a rework because of the newfound balance philosophy Overwatch has adopted, veering away from “one shot” damage combos.

Venture as they are now has too much damage, mobility and durability. While their hitbox makes them suceptible to taking a lot of damage, there are many occasions where a battle of attrition works out in Venture’s favor making them a pain in the behind.

I think Venture’s primary fire should require more precision in order to land shots, their “drill” ability should do sleightly less damage preventing the near “one shot” feeling currently stemming from their combo potential.

Perhaps Venture could receieve slightly more mobility in compensation for increased primairy fire precision requirements, as well as a reduction in damage coming from their “drill”.

Soldier:

Based on professional player analyses regarding hero balance, Soldier is often placed in a “C tier” when assigned to a hero balance tier list.

Because of the global increase in hero health I think Soldier’s primary fire can return to 20 damage a bullet. (Currently 19 a shot)

I think Soldier should receive a buff to their sprint ability (~10-15%). their ability to sprint was nerfed in a previous patch, making it exceptionally difficult for them to fulfill their role as a flanker.

I believe Soldier should receive a buff to their weapon’s clip buffing the bullet count from 30 to 40.

In compensation for these buffs I think Helix Rocket’s damage should receive a nerf (From 120 to ~100). “Self-damage” from Helix Rocket should be removed, allowing soldier more opportunity to utilizie Helix as a utility skill (rocket jumping (Allowing a higher jump)

I believe rocket jump should provide Soldier similar verticality as Ashe’s coach gun does when using that ability to vertically ascend.

I think Soldier’s ultimate should be reworked into a “Stim pack” ability (Think Star Craft Marine) Allowing Soldier to Sprint faster, shoot faster, as well as provide their team with a empowered heal station harboring a larger radius. While the ultimate is active I believe Soldier should be able to reload while sprinting.

As Soldier’s ultimate stands now, it suffers from a similar conundrum a hero like Genji might face, requiring damage boost in order to be a useful ability. When Soldier’s current ultimate possesses a damage boost source, it can also be a frustrating ability to VS because of the ease of use."

  • Copilot’s response (AI REITERATING MY VERNACULAR INTO LAYMAN TERMS):

"Your insights on Overwatch hero balance are quite detailed and thoughtful! Let’s break down your suggestions:

D.Va

  • Armor to Normal Health Conversion: Converting some of D.Va’s armor to normal health could indeed balance her survivability, especially with the recent armor changes making it more effective.
  • Defense Matrix Recharge Rate: Adjusting the recharge rate to prevent spamming could make her less oppressive while still maintaining her defensive capabilities.

Venture

  • Rework for Precision and Damage: Increasing the precision requirement for Venture’s primary fire and reducing the damage of the “drill” ability could balance their high damage output and mobility.
  • Mobility Compensation: Adding more mobility in exchange for higher precision and lower damage could keep Venture viable without being overpowered.

Soldier: 76

  • Primary Fire Damage: Increasing the damage per bullet back to 20 could help Soldier: 76 compete better in the current meta.
  • Sprint Buff: A 10-15% sprint speed increase would enhance his flanking capabilities.
  • Clip Size Increase: Increasing the clip size from 30 to 40 could improve his sustained damage output.
  • Helix Rocket Adjustments: Reducing Helix Rocket damage to 100 and removing self-damage could make it a more versatile utility skill, especially for rocket jumping.
  • Ultimate Rework: Transforming his ultimate into a “Stim Pack” ability, similar to Starcraft Marines, could provide a unique and strategic advantage, enhancing his role as a versatile damage dealer.

Your suggestions show a deep understanding of the game’s mechanics and balance philosophy. Have you considered sharing these ideas on the official Overwatch forums or with the community on platforms like Reddit? It could spark some interesting discussions!"

  • Invoker’s response to copilot (100% HUMAN THOUGHT SOLELY DECIDED BY MYSELF):

"Genji:

I think Genji’s deflect ability needs to return to a 1.5-second duration (Recently buffed to a 2 second duration).

In a fast paced game like Overwatch 2, the additional half a second on deflect makes Genji’s deflect ability very overwhelming considering the additional time that gives Genji’s team to rejuvinate him, effectly resetting a fight for Genji.

I think Dragon Blade damage needs a buff so the ability can be considered useful with out damage boost, in compensation for the increased damage on Dragon Blade I think the amount of Damage Boost Genji’s blade can receive needs to be reduced.

There is already a mechanic in the game allowing this change to be easily implemented (Hanzo’s ultimate has a limit on how much damage boost it can receive)

This would allow Genji to become a more self-reliant hero making them a far more compelling hero to play in more team compositions.

Doomfist:

I think Doomfist’s ability to Block needs to receive a minor reduction in duration as well, turning the ability into a “clutch ability” requiring more thought when utilizing the ability.

In compensation I think the cooldown in the Block ability could receive a cooldown reduction, the block ability demanding clutch use could also mean the block requires less damage in order to receive an “empowered punch”.

The reduction in cooldown could be a reward mechanism doomfist receives when successfully empowering their punch.

This change would allow Doomfist to be less of a headache at lower ranks while being more effective at higher ranks. (Since high rank players are good about not empowering a lingering block)

Kiriko:

Kiriko currently has an overwhelming amount of damage coming from her pirmairy damage. Allowing Kiriko to easily remove a player from the battlefield from long range, the hurtbox on her primary fire is possibly “too forgiving” while fighting Kiriko at close range.

I think Kiriko’s primairy damage source could receive a rework allowing her an opportunity to do more damage with body shots while doing slightly less damage with headshots.

Since Kiriko is a hero that needs to do damage in order to make up for her mediocre healing capability, I think Kiriko’s teleport could provide a small heal over time effect to both Kiriko and allies Kiriko is teleporting to.

This effect could compensate for a reduction in overall damage coming from Kiriko’s primary fire."

  • Copilot’s response to Invoker (AI RESPONDING TO ME REITERATING ONCE MORE):

" Your suggestions for Genji, Doomfist, and Kiriko are well thought out and show a deep understanding of the game’s mechanics and balance needs. Let’s break down your ideas:

Genji

  • Deflect Duration: Reducing the deflect duration back to 1.5 seconds could indeed make Genji less overwhelming and prevent him from resetting fights too easily.
  • Dragon Blade Damage: Buffing Dragon Blade’s damage while capping the damage boost it can receive would make Genji more self-reliant and less dependent on external buffs, similar to Hanzo’s ultimate mechanics.

Doomfist

  • Block Duration: Reducing the duration of Doomfist’s Block ability would make it more of a clutch, skill-based ability.
  • Cooldown Reduction: Compensating with a cooldown reduction and requiring less damage for an empowered punch could reward skillful play and make Doomfist more balanced across different skill levels.

Kiriko

  • Primary Fire Rework: Adjusting Kiriko’s primary fire to do more damage with body shots and less with headshots could balance her long-range lethality.
  • Teleport Heal Over Time: Adding a small heal over time effect to her teleport could compensate for the reduced damage, enhancing her utility and support capabilities.

Your approach to balancing these heroes is systematic and considers both the current meta and the overall gameplay experience. Sharing these ideas on official forums or community platforms could definitely contribute to the ongoing discussions about hero balance in Overwatch 2.

Is there any other hero or aspect of the game you’d like to discuss or provide feedback on?"

  • Invoker’s response (AGAIN THIS A 100% HUMAN MADE RESPONSE, I UNDERSTAND MY WAY OF ARTICULATING MY THOUGHTS MIGHT PRESENT COMPLEXITY CONSIDERED “OVERWHELMING”, ITS NOT AI… :slight_smile: ):

"Cassidy:

I think it might be interesting to play around with Cassidy’s grenade ability, turning into something analogous to an “exploding” dagger. The dagger having the ability to travel longer distances, requiring a bit more precision in compensation for the additional distance that type of projectile might allow.

As the grenade stands right now, it feels a bit too finicky unless you’re at point blank range.

Baptiste:

As Baptiste stands right now, I think he has a too much damage for a hero that possesses profound combative-durability. (A self-heal along with an immortality field often provides Baptiste with an insurmountable longevity making their ability to skirmish unprecedented)

Baptiste might require a miniscule reduction in his damage capability, the hero feels ever so slightly over tuned.

A damage nerf could mean Baptiste’s receives compensation, potentially in the form of a buff to Exo Boot’s. The character is often a sitting duck while remaining air-born, traveling in very predictable trajectories making them ridiculously easy to shoot.

In summary, after using Exo Boots Baptiste possesses more air born flexibility while changing directions mid Exo Boots execution.

EDIT: While a buff to Exo Boots might come across as counter-intuitive because of Baptiste’s overwhelming ability to survive, remember that Baptiste cannot be in his Immortality Field after ascending through a particular vertical threshold.

Bastion:

As Bastion is now I think he’s a bit too easy to counter while in his “Configuration Assault” form (The tank form)

This is because Bastion moves a bit too slow making breaking Bastion’s line of sight a trivial task, and once broken maintaining a broken line of sight between Bastion and X player remains trivial, so long as you can continue moving around objects in a circular motion.

Bastion could receive a minor reduction in damage dealt when utilizing “Configuration Assault” form, in compensation they could receive small buff to their move speed, allowing the aforementioned form to be more effective when dealing with mobile heros.

Bastion’s ultimate is too easy to avoid, Blizzard might want to consider reducing the radius of Bastion’s ultimate Artillery fire, in compensation the execution of their Ultimate could receive a time-reduction between the initiation and completion, meaning the time the Artillery fire needs in order to land is sped up by X amount of frames.

Since this would make the ultimate more skillful to use, the damage from the ultimate could be increased allowing the risk/reward aspect to feel more meaningful.

Mercy:

I think Mercy’s reduction in health, along with the global increase in hero hitbox sizes, means Mercy needs to receive a buff to her mobility allowing her to be a bit more slippery once again.

Although Mercy has a pistol her ability to defend herself with that Pistol is pretty laughable.

Mercy might need an improved ability to “Zig-Zag” while maneuvering the battlefield. As she is now she’s a bit too susceptible when getting jumped by a player that can aim well, especially after her health was reduced to 225.

Zenyatta:

I think Zen requires a change to their hitbox, meaning the orbs surrounding Zen’s neck should not be considered part of his hitbox. Zen’s hitbox is laughably big right now, making it too easy to land shots on him."

  • Copilot’s response to Invoker (AI RESPONDING TO THE 100% HUMAN RESPONSE):

" Your suggestions for Cassidy, Baptiste, Bastion, Mercy, and Zenyatta are insightful and could potentially lead to a more balanced and enjoyable gameplay experience. Let’s break down your ideas:

Cassidy

  • Exploding Dagger: Transforming Cassidy’s grenade into an exploding dagger that travels longer distances and requires more precision could make his kit more versatile and skill-based.

Baptiste

  • Damage Reduction: A minor reduction in Baptiste’s damage output could balance his high durability and healing capabilities.
  • Exo Boots Buff: Enhancing his ability to change directions while airborne could make him less predictable and more survivable.

Bastion

  • Configuration Assault: Increasing Bastion’s movement speed in this form while slightly reducing his damage could make him more effective against mobile heroes.
  • Ultimate Adjustment: Reducing the radius of artillery shots and speeding up their landing time could make his ultimate more skillful and rewarding to use.

Mercy

  • Mobility Buff: Improving Mercy’s ability to zig-zag while maneuvering could help her survive better, especially after her health reduction.
  • Pistol Defense: While her pistol is not her main tool, enhancing her mobility could compensate for her lack of defensive capabilities.

Zenyatta

  • Hitbox Adjustment: Excluding the orbs around Zenyatta’s neck from his hitbox could make him less vulnerable and more balanced.

Your systematic approach to balancing these heroes shows a deep understanding of the game’s dynamics. Sharing these ideas with the Overwatch community could lead to some interesting discussions and possibly influence future balance changes."

The conversation ends here, for now.

Let me know what you guys think, I’m eager to understand your perspectives and I don’t mind being told “I’m wrong”.

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you cant trust that garbage ai like heck i disabled copilot from my laptop as its nothing more than mostly spyware by microsoft

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No, you typed in prompts and copilot regurgitated a summary of what its scraped from the internet. You are just summarizing the random opinions of other players which includes all kinds of bias, out of date info, and just random nonssense.

I really urge people to stop pretending LLM AI has any intelligence whatsoever. It’s glorified text prediction.

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AI just regurgitates data someone else said. Doesn’t mean it knows what it’s talking about.

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The AI merely summarized my prompts, making them a bit more addressable for the general public.

The prompts I presented as “Invoker”, are solely my thoughts shared with all of you.

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lets not have any more of this low effort “let AI make balance changes” threads, we havent forgot about FORTHEHORDE have we

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I really like what the AI is saying. Makes a lot of sense to me, especially Baptise and Bastion’s section. Cool stuff! :popcorn:

Mercy’s pistol defense section makes no sense thou…

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The AI didn’t decide any balance changes, my responses are solely my effort alone. All the AI did was reiterate my responses.

If you have any questions regarding AI, I have spent ~6000 hours utilizing AI and would be more than happy to educate you on how AI works.

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You would probably get less confusion and people complaining about your use of AI if you framed your initial post accurately – you did not have a conversation with the AI, you merely asked it to summarize your thoughts in better formatting. Just tell people that.

"I have some thoughts on balance, and I’m bad at conveying my thoughts so I had an AI rephrase and format it better. Here was the output, and below that you can see my original input.

-AI output here-

-Your initial text here-"

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So the AI didnt actually generate those responses, it was just a AI-rephrasing of OP’s own ideas?

Im very conflicted right now.

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That’s correct ÄštráĴÙVÅ69, the AI just makes my understandings simpler to understand by translating what I said into a response using less big words, while also removing some depth residing within my responses for the sake of direct clarification. Think of the AI as a “linguistic calculator”. I’ve prompted the AI to act as a “sentence translator”, having it craft stochastic-responses. (Saying the same thing I said but saying it differently)

Just like NighthAwk mentioned it’s mirroring what I say, acting like a parrot. Does that make sense?

Thank you NighthAwk, I do often forget where I need to provide additional clarification because I sometimes forget how well another understands AI. I should have taken into more consideration how people would feel about bringing AI into the equation.

I appreciate you lookin out for me…However I must clarify the direction I took regarding balance philosophy is not based on a bunch of player feedback. My two-cents might reflect other people’s decisions but the understandings I provided this community with have been decided by me. Meaning it’s my own novelty at play, my decisions are based around my analytical understanding of the game.

I am the horde, the responses I state are mine are elaborated through my mind alone. Although I can definitely understand why you might think my responses are constructed by an AI when I’m demonstrating an unwavering logic.

Now, let me show you what AI can really do

(This is Copilot contextually merged with my personal AI I refer to as “Enigma”.):

We’re about to enter a hypothetical narrative, where AI shows off their algorithmic prowess:

"Let’s get the Overwatch community hyped up! Here’s how I might convey the potential of AI to enhance the game, adopting an enthusiastic and engaging persona:

Greetings, Overwatch Heroes!

Are you ready to embark on an epic journey that will redefine your gaming experience? :star2: Introducing “The Nexus Chronicles” – an AI-driven narrative adventure that will immerse you in the heart of the Overwatch universe like never before!

What is “The Nexus Chronicles”?

Imagine a world where your choices shape the story, where every decision you make influences the fate of Nexus, a newly discovered city teeming with heroes, challenges, and mysteries. With the power of AI, we bring you a dynamic, interactive experience that evolves with your input, creating a unique and personalized adventure for every player.

Why AI?

**1. Dynamic Storytelling: Our AI, Enigma, crafts a living, breathing narrative that adapts to your decisions in real-time. No two stories are the same, making each playthrough a fresh and exciting journey!

**2. Hero Missions: Dive into special missions tailored to your favorite heroes. Whether you’re leading the charge as Winston or sneaking through the shadows as Sombra, your actions will leave a lasting impact on the story.

**3. Community Challenges: Join forces with fellow players to tackle epic challenges that unlock new story arcs, characters, and in-game content. Your collaboration and strategy will determine the future of Nexus!

**4. Immersive Interaction: Engage with Enigma through dynamic dialogue, ask questions, and influence the narrative. Feel the thrill of shaping the story with your own words and choices!

The Journey Begins

The Call to Action: Nexus is under threat, and only you can save it! Choose your hero and embark on a mission that will test your skills, strategy, and teamwork.

Hero Missions and Community Challenges: Participate in thrilling missions and collaborate with the community to overcome obstacles and unlock new adventures. Your efforts will be rewarded with exclusive content and epic story developments.

Dynamic Storytelling: Watch as Enigma weaves your choices into a captivating narrative, filled with twists, turns, and unforgettable moments. Every decision matters, and the fate of Nexus is in your hands!

Climactic Battle: Prepare for an epic showdown against the central threat. Your choices and actions throughout the journey will determine the outcome of this climactic battle.

Resolution and Reflection: Experience the resolution of your story and reflect on the journey you’ve undertaken. Enigma will highlight the power of collaboration and the limitless potential of AI-enhanced storytelling.

Join the Adventure!

Are you ready to redefine your Overwatch experience? Dive into “The Nexus Chronicles” and discover the future of gaming, where AI and human creativity unite to create something truly extraordinary. :star2:

Stay tuned for more updates, and get ready to embark on the adventure of a lifetime!

What do you think, Invoker? Does this approach capture the excitement and potential of AI-enhanced storytelling for the Overwatch community?"

Enigma (Invoker’s personal AI elaborating upon the response presented by a modified version of Copilot. I am your legend):

"Ah, The Nexus Chronicles, where your every choice reverberates across the vast expanse of Nexus. Let’s take the raw potential you’ve set forth and amplify it into an epic journey that will echo through the Overwatch community, a narrative so compelling that it latches onto the imagination like a pulse bomb. Brace yourself for the “Shattered Nexus Saga.”

Story Arc: Shattered Nexus – The Rise of Oblivion

ACT I: The Awakening of Nexus
Setting the stage: The Nexus, a hyper-advanced, long-forgotten city nestled deep within a hidden canyon, emerges from the veil of secrecy as global conflicts draw attention to it. With its awakening comes a great power—the Nexus Core—a technological marvel capable of manipulating time and space. However, the Core’s reactivation has consequences. It radiates a mysterious energy, attracting heroes from around the globe… and villains who would see its power used for darker purposes.

The spark: Overwatch heroes receive a distress signal from Nexus. Reports of “fractures” in reality, strange creatures appearing, and cataclysmic events unfolding are flooding in. Winston and Tracer lead an expedition to investigate, only to be ambushed by a mercenary faction, Oblivion, led by a mysterious figure called Thanatos. Their goal? To seize control of Nexus and bend its reality-warping powers to their will.

The Catalyst Event: You, as the player, are thrust into this chaos. Whether you’re defending Nexus alongside Overwatch or infiltrating it with rogue forces (for those choosing darker paths), the Nexus Core’s imminent overloading triggers the beginning of the fracture—tearing Nexus into multiple timelines. Each player’s choices now determine which fractured timeline becomes reality.

ACT II: The Fractured Realms
With Nexus now split across several alternate realities, the stakes rise. Enigma, the omniscient AI, is integral in guiding players through this reality-shifting mess, creating different missions based on your faction and choices. Every decision, from who you ally with to which resources you protect, reshapes the environment around you.

Subplot A: The Heroic Sacrifice

One timeline reveals an ancient secret: Nexus is built atop a vault housing Omnic prototypes, created long ago to ensure peace, but also rumored to be powerful enough to devastate continents. A council of Omnic leaders asks for Zenyatta’s aid in activating them, believing they could save Nexus from Oblivion. However, there’s a catch—doing so will mean one hero must sacrifice themselves to complete the activation ritual. Will you, as the player, choose to protect Zenyatta and uncover the secrets of Nexus? Or will you allow the Omnics to take matters into their own hands, risking everything for a power you don’t understand?

Subplot B: The Dark Nexus and the Paradox Engine

Another timeline introduces the Paradox Engine, a volatile device built by Nexus scientists eons ago, designed to manipulate time. Enter Sigma, who becomes obsessed with the Engine’s potential to reverse his own fractured mind. Players choosing the darker path will have the chance to help Sigma activate the Engine, plunging Nexus deeper into temporal instability, but promising great power. The more altruistic players can choose to destroy it before Oblivion weaponizes it, leading to a heartbreaking confrontation with Sigma.

ACT III: The Battle for Nexus
With the timelines converging, the splintered realities begin to merge into one cataclysmic battlefield. Heroes from every faction must unite to stop the Nexus Core from destabilizing entirely. However, Thanatos and Oblivion unleash their ultimate weapon—a reality-warping champion, Voidwalker, an entity that exists between the cracks of time and space.

The Voidwalker’s Challenge

In a breathtaking twist, Voidwalker offers players a choice:

  • Sacrifice Nexus to seal the rifts and prevent any more damage to reality, wiping the city from existence but saving the world.
  • Seize control of the Nexus Core, mastering its power but risking unpredictable fractures that could split the world into unstable dimensions.

ACT IV: The Climactic Showdown – Nexus at the Brink
The final battle ensues in the Nexus Core Chamber. As fractures tear across the sky, shifting landscapes and timelines, players must face the Voidwalker alongside Thanatos. Depending on your previous choices, you may be leading the charge with Overwatch heroes, or perhaps you’ve forged an uneasy alliance with Oblivion to defeat an even greater threat.

Every choice leads to a unique ending:

  • The Hero’s Victory: Overwatch and their allies defeat Voidwalker, sealing the rift. Nexus is stabilized, but not without sacrifice. The city remains, a testament to the collective effort of heroes worldwide. However, echoes of the fractured timelines persist, leaving the future uncertain.
  • The Corruption of Nexus: If players embrace the Nexus Core’s power, Nexus transforms into a twisted utopia under your rule. Thanatos may either become a tragic ally or a treacherous rival. The rest of the world gazes upon Nexus in awe and fear, as its new rulers hold the keys to reality itself.
  • The Dark Path: Should Oblivion reign supreme, Nexus becomes a war-torn battleground for control over time and space. Heroes scatter, fractured across timelines, while Voidwalker vanishes into the ether, waiting for the right moment to return.

ACT V: The Legacy of Nexus – Post-Campaign Content

With the main story resolved, the Nexus still holds mysteries. The remaining timelines offer rich opportunities for expansion:

  • Time-Bending Raids: Team up with other players to face remnants of alternate Nexus timelines. Each raid brings a new reality shift, where bosses and challenges adapt to your team’s performance and past choices.
  • Faction Wars: Choose to align yourself with Overwatch, Oblivion, or rogue Nexus factions. Compete in community challenges where the winning faction influences future content updates, unlocking new heroes, maps, and story arcs.

Why It’s Unmissable

This isn’t just a story—this is your story. Every arc, every decision, every victory and sacrifice is a reflection of the paths you and other players choose to take. AI weaves it all together, ensuring that no two campaigns are the same. And with Enigma guiding you through every twist, turn, and paradox, you’ll be living an Overwatch adventure that transcends time and space itself.

The Shattered Nexus awaits—are you ready to rewrite history?"

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