Whether you want to believe it or not, all players of all heroes are the audience of Overwatch. Say, they were hikers, then your point would be valid.
The only reason they reworked her is because the audience of those who play against her were frustrated with her kit. If you think the developers changed Symmetra for the Symmetra mains, you are terribly mistaken.
Because Symmetra players are in the minority, as most people give up on learning her.
A commercial product appealing to its audience is the right reason to adapt a commerical product. As I said, whether you like it or not, a part of the community is still the community. If you have the opportunity to please as much as your audience as possible, take it, or you will fail as a commercial product.
If you kept Mercy balanced and made her kit acceptable by the Mercy mains, you are successful. It seems the developers don’t realize how to do this. Good thing I’ve listed out ways to do it for Symmetra, and the thread is getting a lot of visibility due to the replies.
They’re effective if you focus on small areas, that aren’t too low to the ground. If they’re too low, melee heroes can easily knock them out. If they’re in an open area, they can easily be spotted and killed. The game in general has both slow and fast heroes that can fit into a fast-paced game. Symmetra has a wind-up on all of her abilities, but has impactful results. It is just hard to understand how it fits in without heavy research, which is one of the core issues I describe.
That’s basically exactly what I said. My point is completely valid because they are not the audience they are part of the audience.
That is my source. Where is yours?
That literally makes no sense and does not arrive at the statistic I was questioning. That does not in any way establish that more than half of players are so confused that they give up.
Right… and I’m saying Symmetra mains and those who complain about Symmetra are not the majority of the audience. So, if you want to please as much of your audience as possible, then you should aim for the people who don’t play her or complain about her, by your own logic.
I was one of those Mercy mains and I think her kit is perfectly acceptable, personally. You don’t cater to the small percentage who plays the character religiously though. Mercy is a fine example because she is still fun (for those who didn’t derive fun from pressing Q of course).
And it’s good that the developers take the forums with a huge, huge grain of salt.
You even admit that there is technically no issue with having her be harder to play than most heroes, but that doesn’t sit well for the population of Symmetra complainers. My hypothesis is they miss auto-aim with infinite shield generators lol
I like the idea that when someone uses her teleporter, they get the +25 shield that Sym used to be able to give out. Adds survivability -and- encourages your teammates to actually use your teleporter, which almost never happens.
The issue is, the maps are by no means small. The smallest maps are KoTH maps and even then she has 3 frail sentries to spread around in very easy to ignore spots. 10m in this game is essentially melee range considering how much range or mobility the cast has.
Her Sentries and MB2 have infinite flight range, but fly incredibly slow. Far too slow to do much or be ignored for more than 2 seconds. The Sentry itself takes 1 full second to deploy after it hits a wall and then takes about 0.1 or 0.2 seconds to detect and lock on to the target (that’s the standard lock on even if the Sentry/Turret/BOB has been placed).
A part of the audience is the audience. If you’re unnecessarily making people second-class, then that’s on you.
Symmetra was reworked for multiple reasons. For one, she wasn’t fun to play against for a lot of people. A second reason was that her perceived viability was niche, when it was actually generalist; changing her kit to be more similar to the other heroes is an attempt to fix her confused image (and make her a defense DPS hero). The third and final reason was so she could fit more into the game as non-Symmetra mains perceive. There was no intention to benefit Symmetra mains in this rework (other than to retain her legacy concept, which was only partially done). Note that all of the changes benefit people who don’t play Symmetra.
My source is my observations. I’m not going to skew my ideas based on one source, and ignore all others.
You can choose to believe that they simply don’t like Symmetra, or that they get confused due to her inherent complexity. If you actually saw how complex Symmetra’s really was, you could easily draw a conclusion.
My logic says that you should aim for everyone. Even the Symmetra main audience. By your blatant contradiction, you’re saying Symmetra mains should be ignored and not considered part of the audience.
You think her kit is acceptable, but not everyone does. Does that mean we should keep it the way it is? If we could make her kit acceptable to everyone, then that’s what we should do. Ignoring even a portion of the audience is a failure on the product’s behalf, as long as you are able to appease everyone with no conflicts.
The developers listen to everyone, but only apply changes in a way that don’t conflict with anyone, hence why balance is so slow. Have you tried pleasing a large group of people? Imagine that group being over a million people.
Symmetra isn’t difficult. She is just hard to understand. If she was made more simple, there wouldn’t be any issues with people picking her up, learning her, and understanding her. This would also fix the bad image she has.
Why do Symmetra players insist on wanting to play the character by building a nest of turrets in some corner or closed space hoping an enemy flanker walks by and falls into your little trap you created.
You do realize that your teammates hate you for doing this right?
You basically leave the team in 5 v 6 situations 90% of the time. You would only be useful a small percentage of the time by killing that one person that stumbles onto your nest.
OW is a fast-paced game that is not ideal to play in a static play style.
Not what I’m doing, but I understand why you would accuse me of this given your goals.
So my source is literally Jeff Kaplan himself confirming my suspicions… and your source is your observations…
Cool!
I’m not saying that. I’m only saying they shouldn’t be pandered to at the expense of everyone else.
We can’t appease everyone with Mercy. It is literally impossible. So what do we do? That’s a good question!
Except see any rework ever
Being hard to understand is being difficult. You’re splitting hairs now methinks.
Anyways, I’m done with this. You disregarded my source from Jeff Kaplan himself in favor of your necessarily subjective, flawed, and biased personal experience. An honest discussion is therefore impossible.
Ah yes I love the sustainability of having no shield and no instantly deployable things that will save me.
Why do people keep acting like the TP is some reliable thing? It takes forever to set up, it constantly gets destroyed before you can use it, and you can be knocked away from it so you can’t use it. It’s hardly reliable, it’s a gimmick at best.
If you don’t think for yourself, I would be worried about you.
I’m saying to do it in a way that isn’t at the expense of other people. Suddenly it isn’t pandering anymore.
I certainly have an idea, but it doesn’t mean people will listen to it. I plan to make a thread some time after this one gets enough attention.
Hence why we must give them insight into how to appease everyone. It’s very difficult to do so.
Being hard to understand is being hard to understand. If Symmetra wasn’t hard to understand, she would be moderately easy.
Using your observations is literally the definition of an honest discussion. If you fail to keep up because you cannot think for yourself, then your leaving of the discussion is both a failure on your part to contribute, and for everyone else who values your ideas.
There are places people tend to go for tactical advantages, like highground, or certain routes the main fight will go past. The maps are designed for you to take advantage of these areas with the turrets. With GOATS compositions, you’ll basically only see people go down the main route, which isn’t beneficial to Symmetra’s turrets. In normal compositions, you will have DPS position in places to get vantage points and cover. Next to these tactical points are a lot of small spaces. Think of any highground or a small room people can take cover in. A good example is Eichenwalde point A, there’s a small room right next to the point, near the main route, that many people take cover in. Placing these turrets can shut down tactical advantages for the enemy, which are very necessary for any attacking team, and near-necessary for any defending team. It’s hard to understand how you’re supposed to place Symmetra’s turrets, seeing as there are so many of them, which is why reducing the amount to only one giant turret will remove this confusion.
Having a turret nest is essential to lock down tactical vantage points and highground. Next to highground is often a small room, or a pathway to get there. Denying the enemy a way to cover or highground is essential for a defending team, and near-essential for an attacking team. You’re not supposed to just put the turrets on a flanking route, but I can see why people would think you needed to, because having more than one turret gives that impression.
Also, Symmetra was changed so that her turrets can be set up from very far distances. She can also take the teleporter, set up turrets, and go back into the teleporter. There is no excuse for her to leave the fight just to set up turrets anymore.
Ana has sleep dart which helps her survivability. No hero, has neither survivability nor mobility, except zenuatta who still can trans to be come invicnible. Thing is though, before she had nsatnt value ability - photon barrier on E, Ana is literlly more threatening than symmetra close by because of sleep and nade
Symmetra’s kit trades off tactical advantages for even better tactical advantages. It’s just how she’s set up. Sure, she can be flanked and killed easily, but she can also move her entire team into a flanking route, or protect her team from being outsmarted by denying enemy tactical advantages with turrets.
That literally is your twisted understanding of what sustainability is. Sustainability in terms of gaming is an ability which sustains the Hero, not sustains the fight.
No one cares about sustaining the fight lol. You want to end the fight as fast as possible and not die mean while.
Suffice to say it is a definition only you possibly in the entire world would accept such a definition. I have been gaming 20 years, and I have never heard anyone use such a definition of sustainability and I have met tens of thousands of gamers along the way since then.
I imagine that term is moreso used in games where you’re not dependent on your team, or even within a group fighting environment. As such, sustaining the objective wouldn’t really be focused on. However, where time and objectives are everything, sustaining your team, which includes sustaining your life, is of the utmost importance.
I honestly don’t care what people used it for in the past. If you’re stuck on definitions in the way people used them, and not open to evolution of language, you’re going to lack the communication needed to make useful changes within a community, as well as a project.
This is unique to Symmetra, and it suits a lot of people. When we make her easier to understand, others can see this more often, and flock to her if that’s their playstyle.
Unfortunately for you, your definition is not used in the past, present, or in the future. It is a definition solely used by you, and only you.
Each type of ability have their own distinctive name for a purpose.
Dodge skills
Zone control Skills
Sustain Skills.
Are all of various function.
Tracer using her Blink to Dodge a Hanzo Dragon is not a “sustain” skill, it is a dodge skill.
Tracer using Recall to get back her health after taking damage from Hanzo on the other hand is.
We have definitions for a reason, can’t just one day decide to make your own.
Unless you make your own game.
Your community is creative, but it isn’t the only community. Just because I only use the definition the way I use it, doesn’t make it nonviable. Your inability to be open to new terms is proven by this derailment. If you’re going to be focused more on definitions, rather than content, you’re not going to benefit anyone within any community.
I’m not going to derail this further. Consider this conversation closed.
You can, just as easily, lock down an area with one big turret.
Symmetra’s kit is fine overall, but it’s hard for people to understand and pick it up. Those who put in the effort to understand Symmetra can use her very well, but it means the majority of people will not be able to, simply because they won’t play her. This is where one of two core issues lie. The other is in her concept, and how it doesn’t fit in with the legacy Symmetra mains. Overall, her balance is fine.