No amount of heals are going to outheal the amount of focus fire any competent team is going to throw towards Sym. They don’t even have to focus her, because more often than not they just ult her in some form. I can’t even tell you the amount of times I’ve had an enemy Zarya look directly at me and grav me just to put me down. Just because Syms autolock 120dps is scary doesn’t mean she isn’t hilariously simple to shut down.
Then you my friend are playing at way higher elo than me my friend,
He can, but IMO that’s nowhere near the best use of his ult since he can also just walk through the barrier and ult.
It’s not a perfect ult, but it’s far from useless. If it blunts the double-sniper meta we’re seeing, it will be 100% worth it.
If heroes are created (I said created and not reworked, since new Sym is essentially a new hero) solely to adjust the meta flow, then where will she be once there’s another meta? F-tier.
I agree if they pushed her into a more supportive role and made 3.0 into a new character everyone would have been happy. She didn’t need to heal just something like her turrets being more about the speed debuffs or her shield gen and teleport being able to be out at the same time stuff like that.
There is a bunch of reasons why I personally don’t like the rework.
- The first and more obvious is that the devs never even tried to permutate her current kit. She got reworked in November 2016, and apart from bug fixing, she was never touched in any patch. And it’s not like we didn’t had a long megathread with thousands of posts from Symmetra players talking about what her issues are, and how to fix it while retaining her playstyle. Going from “ignored” to “fully new rework with all old toys gone” is very drastic.
- I don’t like the new orb because it’s removing one tool that was very unique in its mechanics and approach, and swapping it for the fourth primary weapon that is an explosive projectile (after Pharah, Junkrat and Zarya). Her old orb had a niche pressuring heavy shield comps. Her new orbs is just another flavor of Pharah rockets.
- Symmetra was a benchmark of accessibility in the game (and it involved more than the “autolock gun”), and it seems like the devs pretty much ignored that they have an disabled playerbase when designing Symmetra 3.0.
- Other than the turrets (which is still debatable), every other aspect of the new kit is weaker or at the same power level of her current kit, which kinda defeats the purpose of the rework in the first place.
- (and to be fair, I was expecting it to be very OP at least for a few weeks…)
- Finally, all the issues that are affecting her new beam (regardless of your opinion on autolock), and that apparently will stay for when the rework hit live. And by issues I mean, in no specific order:
- The fact that it’s a damage downgrade when you add precision to the equation, because to get to the same damage levels of autolock , you need more precision than even pro players have, by a large margin
- The fact that it still takes more than 2 seconds to kill any 200 HP target, regardless of your aim, thus still leaving her ineffective at bursting targets down
- The fact that it takes too long to ramp up her damage, making it extremely dangerous to play close range DPS with her. Compounded by how effective her new orb is, so its better to spam orbs even at close range.
#SaveSymmetra is a cute hashtag.
Not with that teleporter she won’t. It’s pure map-dependent God tier.
It won’t rule any kind of meta, but it will shake up some maps more than others. She’ll see use, which is more than she’s seeing now.
I think the responses you’re seeing to the Sym rework are heavily biased and skewed towards the negative because the Sym players that like the rework aren’t as frequently vocal on the forums about liking it in comparison to the players that don’t like it.
Personally, I’m satisfied with this rework and excited about what Sym 3.0 will bring to the game - which I believe will be A LOT. Are there a few things that are disappointing with the rework? Sure, overall though I think it’s a step in the right direction.
I believe her new projectile sentries, agile teleporter, and photon barrier ult will REALLY help Sym shape the landscape of every map, and affect every engagement in a fun, fresh, and complex way. I will admit, that I’m not entirely excited by her new primary fire, especially since it seems to be either buggy or useless at the moment. Even in description it sound like it’d only be useful against tanks, and even then, only applicable against tanks with shields. I’m also not a fan of the fact that she lost her personal barrier.
Yeah, in the beginning maybe. Then once the enemy sees you have attack Sym on Hanamura it’ll be “oh they’re gonna come through the window” and boom. People thinking her tp won’t be as easy to shut down as the rest of her kit has always been is temporary. Wait for people to adjust and she will once again be considered a troll pick that sees virtually no use.
She can already make chokes pointless on attack, she just has to do it with an ult. “She can do it every 10 seconds now” isn’t a good argument either. If Sym is doing a backdoor TP on live, the enemy team doesn’t know it or that Sym is behind them until the TP goes down. By the time the enemy team collects themselves and goes to the point, your whole team is already there capping.
Tell me why I should be impressed by TP as an ability every 10 seconds when she can already move her whole team an infinite distance across the map from spawn.
She’ll still be niche. She still won’t be as useful as other actual DPS heroes. There will still be OTPs playing her exclusively despite being hard countered, and people will still consider her a trollpick and despise her as a result.
Deliberately doing stupid things and hoping the enemy doesn’t notice, e.g. flank teles, car wash over the enemy spawn, somehow getting into the backline.
Because Symmetra 3.0 is generally negative
Which will get shut down super quick when everyone gets used to it enough to shoot the giant glowing beacon that just appeared on the ground
A 15 second barrier instead of a hefty shield for everyone/ a way to avoid having to consistently walk back from spawn every death
Actually, Hanamura isn’t a Sym tele map. Things are too open, ranges are just a bit too far, and approach options are too limited. Maybe on point B to take the entire attacking team around the left side flank, but that’s it.
Volskya is going to be, IMO, the Symmetra map. Both points have multiple approaches, and she’ll open up a few new ones that don’t usually get used very much and don’t have good sight lines from the normal defense spots.
Nepal is going to be another good one as all three maps have decent teleporter targets. In village you can use it to access Genji’s room and attack the point from the second floor with your whole team. In sanctum you can use it to access the middle outside platform and come in on the flank (with some heroes being able to easily flank around to the other team’s spawn approach).
Shrine is probably the worst map for Sym as the area around the point is very, very open. But there are still a few areas where you can use terrain to block LoS long enough for your entire team to dogpile a tele and come in on a flank.
Anubis should prove entertaining as a left-side flank with Sym opens up the rear point approach through the top windows if your pharah, hanzo, or widowmaker can clear any snipers or Genjis off of the left side rooftop.
The big point is that she has zero competition for this mechanic. If you want team-wide mobility that goes beyond lucio, you’ll need a sym. Most teams won’t be able to use her effectively. But the ones that do will win.
…and that’s not going to stop just after a week since it’s not just one approach that her teleporter opens up. If it’s a sym map, we’re talking 2-3 per map, per point depending on how coordinated your team is and how inventive you are.
If you are talking about the same survey I’m thinking about, there is two things you need to consider there before making that claim.
First, is that the survey asked more about each specific individual change that went through. So, there are people that dislike the rework as a whole, but is ok with some aspects of the rework. Eg, I myself am not found of the rework, but I like the new turrets (after they actually raised its damage/slow), and I think the ultimate have potential to be awesome.
Second, that the same survey was sent to the main sub, and that survey was a lot more positive than the one that collected responses from the Symmetra mains sub.
Third, that this survey was sent before we were able to test them out on the PTR. It was mostly a popularity contest with the description only. Many things changed between Geoff’s talking about the rework, and what we have on PTR right now. Eg, we were promised a “large and thick beam”, which is why so many people agree with the changes. I can guarantee no one was expecting a two feet increase in range, and requiring Zarya level of aiming (people were expecting Moira-level of aiming).
Um, because on live the rest of your team has to die and you have to rambo a stealth mission alone. It’s difficult, risky, easy to screw up, prone to random flights of Genji, and can be easily called out by anyone with a brain who can count.
Why is the new teleporter better? Because you can use it from your team’s position without needing CS:GO Knife-Kill enabling level tunnel vision from the enemy team.
If the live tele was worth even a tenth of what you think it is, we’d see it in OWL.
We don’t, because it’s a cheeky meme strat for when your opponents aren’t paying attention. It’s not an actual strat that wins games.
I wanted to like the old Symmetra, back when she got her first rework. But I didn’t. And, as someone who likes Symmetra as a character, I won’t miss Sym 2.0 one bit. “She feels too much like a new hero”, you say? Fine by me. I’d rather have a good hero than a terrible-but-fun hero.
But… But Symmetra’s a Damage hero herself! Gaaah, this forum makes me angry!
(Not racist, but you get the idea)
I heartily agree that a lot of Symmetra effectiveness relies on the enemy doing stupid things. It just impress me how many stupid players are around, that she can be so effective when you properly read the match flow, and bait them on.
That is simply what you have to do as Symmetra on attack because Attack and Defense Sym are two different playstyles. Yes, normally you’d do Shield Gen, but if that’s not helping your team push the choke, the backdoor TP works like 90% of the time. I’ve played this hero since launch, and the only time it doesn’t work is when you’re spotted or when your team just funnels onto the point and dies.
At higher elos the people that have this competence and communication you speak of are people that typically dive the Teleporter immediately after it’s placed (usually a lone Dva but maybe with a Tracer/Genji), which forces the enemy to fight where your team has an advantage. Yes, to an extent it is a meme strat, but everyone is cocky when it comes to attack Sym. Of course you wouldn’t see Sym strats in OWL because Sym is terrible and not viable. How can you not see the “tp your Bastion/Orisa onto the chandeliers in Eichenwaldes castle lel” as a meme strat?
You listed many examples of “Sym” maps with this rework. You’ve noticed all of these spots that would be good for the new Teleporter, which is exactly what every Sym player does with every single map with both of her ults currently. And then the enemy learns them. And then they aren’t as useful anymore.
That’s what I’m talking about. That’s why Symmetra 3.0 is not as good as you really think she is. Teamwide mobility and Sym 3.0s kit seems strong on paper, but even Sym 2.0s kit seems strong on paper. In practice, she’s the weakest and most easily countered hero in the game. That is also what this rework hasn’t addressed. In fact, she’s lost many heroes she soft countered. No autolock for Genji, no pierce for Rein/Orisa/Brig/Bastion/Torb, no shield gen to counter Hanzo headshots or armor synergy to counter Widow.
I could go on, but people can’t see what is plain as day. Blizzard has given Symmetra a new kit that offers roughly the same amount of value and are expecting it to somehow save the heroes terrible reputation and place in the game and it probably isn’t going to work.
That remains to be seen. She could require buffs and her tele could be useless.
However, I’m betting that there is an economy of attention that will be abusable at the highest levels, and simply won’t be present at the lower ones in sufficient quantity to counter it all the time (everything should be counterable and the tele is no different).
Enemy teams can learn her tele points? So what? People learned the Widowmaker nest points a long time ago and she still gets work done (hell, she’s OP ATM).
Knowledge is less than 20% of the game. Most of it is execution. It’s not going to matter if they know where you can put your teleporter as long as you don’t let them know which one you’re going to use before hand and your team is grouped up and spamming the “interact” key as you place it. I mean, the #1 benefit of the new teleporter is the simple fact that travel through it doesn’t expose you to the enemy which will allow for some nice flanking setup with a minimum of warning since they won’t be able to see you run across the intervening terrain.
I might be (and probably am) giving it too much credit, but you are definitely not giving it enough.
Well I am a GM/Top500 symm main and these are my thoughts. Having to aim is offset by the increased dmg so im fine with that. My main problems with it are that shield gen is gone so RIP. Honestly loved that ability and thought it was really fun. My second problem is that I don’t like the ult. If they couldn’t walk through it I would like it. Honestly my only complaints.
I personally LOVE her rework. Only gripes I have with it are her M1 having little visual indicator of if you’re dealing damage/ within range or not and her ultimate being easily bypassed.
Luckily I have a solution to it; Bring back her old m1 animation where if you’re not hitting anything the energy sorta flails everywhere, which also allows us to pick up the basketball like old times.
Her ult is pretty good, however I’m up for a ult charge increase so we can make each panel of the barrier shatter and deal damage while slowing enemies to punish enemies for daring to walk through it.