Don’t buff, just get her back to 2.0. I guess that is a buff
symmetra is literally only useful in thehigher elos at best,
1 Like
I would bouch for this but we know its not ever happening.
especially since she was played once in OWL and that = viable
as we saw with sombra
1 Like
Same thing Sombra asked when she got nerfhammered repeatedly.
Compensation nerfs all the way.
Meanwhile, they rework Hanzo into top-tier DPS and gradually buff Mei and others with no compensation nerfs.
Double standards, aaawwwaaaayyy!
3 Likes
But zarya on average across all ranks does more damage than tracer, genji, sym, mei, sombra, doomfist, widow. Like what’s your point. Should all these heroes change?
you forgot that Symmetra’s beam is not the only source of dmg she has.
she does have her turrets
No because tracer Genji doomfist and widow are actually good heroes and arent considered F tier
Sombra needs some sort of buff for ladder
Mei idk,
1 Like
Why do people insist that something else in her kit must be diminished in order to make her primary viable?
Are we asking for more damage? No, we’re asking for something to make up for the lack of stuff we’ve got to do our job.
Unless you consider her job to be a taxi service, in which case… well… it doesn’t lend much to a team to ONLY do that.
This isn’t a hard concept to understand, it’s really not.
Symmetra has 3 sources of damage, 2 of which are not dependable, and 1 which would be dependable IF it did appreciable damage.
Since it is impossible to use primary and secondary fire at the same time, there is absolutely no need to take away from one to get the other.
Keep in mind what Symmetra, and by proxy, the entire team lost in Symmetra 3.0 rework.
Lost: 75 Shields -OR-
Lost: Instant travel back to point after respawn with Teleporter
Lost: 100% Accuracy beam of 120dps with 2second total ramp up to max damage
Lost: Piercing capability of Orb
Lost: 6 turrets for 180dps combined
Lost: Projected Photon Shield
Gained: Primary DPS upped to 180dps
Takes 4 seconds to reach this with 100% accuracy
Gained: Secondary Orbs do 120dps in half the charge up time, faster travel speed
No longer pierces shields to break turtle comp, 5 less damage, no longer hits multiple targets
Gained: 25meter teleporter on 12s cooldown
No longer able to TP back from spawn
Gained: 3 Tossable turrets with 30hp, 10sec cooldown
Lost 3 turrets, less map awareness, less targets to shoot, 30dps less
Gained: Photon Barrier
Lost Shield Generator and Teleport from Spawn
Gained: Nothing
Lost Photon Shield
Please, take the above in consideration when you start talking about tradeoffs on what we gained vs what was lost. This is NOT a biased opinion, this is a factual representation of what was changed on Symmetra 3.0 from 2.0. I’m not saying that Sym 3.0 is horrible by any means, but I AM saying that she’s not complete.
Meaning, she hasn’t received everything to make up for what she lost. As a result, she needs something more to make up the difference.
16 Likes
Zarya’s right click does 45 base and it goes upto 90 damage when fully charged.
It most certainly is not 180 damage.
Zarya’s base damage is about 95 DPS so at full charge she can do 190 DPS but seems she loses 1.6 charge every second it’s never going to be that high for very long going down to numbers closer to 175-185 on average for a good player.
You are also ignoring the fact that Symettra’s ammo is enough to fire 7 (8 if you tap a shield for a single point of ammo) in a row before reloading but Zarya is only able to fire four secondary fires before reloading.
Zarya’s right click also has an arc to deal with which can reduce its effective speed and range.
Zarya’s time to charge to 80% is potentially one second but to get from 0 to 100% is a minimum of 8 seconds. You can’t compare the 8 second chargeup damage stats to the 4 second charge up damage stats but conveniently say she charges in one second.
3 Likes
Let’s ignore that Sym charges her beam in a much more practical way and gets a net gain of ammo when she’s shooting shields.
I’m not saying that Sym’s beam is fine, but I’m not supporting your thread when you conveniently leave out details to push your point.
It has a 3 meter radius, if you hit more than one person, you do that much extra damage, in a pile of people, or for instance, immediately after a Grav, she can pump out 6x90x4=2160 damage in a best case scenario.
Symmetra’s right click can do 120damage to only 1 person, if she manages to catch another player basically standing on top of the other player, she’ll do 120 to the first person she hits, and 35 splash damage. There is simply no comparison between the two.
Zarya’s alt fire beats Symmetra’s alt fire 100% of the time. Zarya does not need to charge the projectile to fire it, it’s instant. And, as you were so good to point out earlier, she can still lob a right click even with 1 ammo.
So what if Symmetra can fire 7/8 right clicks, if she can only reliably land half of them? The travel time on them is significantly slower than Zarya’s alt fire. If you can see Symmetra charging a shot at you, and you’re further than 10m away, you can easily dodge it.
Since Zarya suffers from the same accuracy problems that Symmetra does, there will be no comparison made on that front. We can compare the range at which they’re able to do that damage. Zarya can do hers from 16m away, and has the HP pool to stand there long enough to deal the damage with it, and also has a damage absorb mechanic that effectively gives her 600hp to stand there and shoot someone in the face.
Symmetra has 200hp. 12m range. Which makes more sense? A tank having a 12m range, or a DPS?
I’m not vying for a nerf to Zarya at all, but it would make far more sense, logically, if Zarya had a 12m range on her beam, and utilized her alt fire for ranges outside of that, and Symmetra to have the 16m range due to being a “DPS Character” and a lack of HP to stand there and dish out the damage.
This is actually beneficial, believe it or not. You can arc a shot very far away from you, and reliably hit a target at the speed that it travels. If Symmetra attempts this, someone will easily dodge its paltry 20m/s speed.
I think the point was that in 1 second, Zarya gains far more charge, and far more damage than what Symmetra takes to deal damage. In the same amount of time, she can fire an orb and match your damage. Her beam won’t match it for at LEAST 4 seconds, and more like 6 due to the accuracy required to gain the charge.
So, while we can agree we’re not comparing apples to apples, the pear is pretty close to an apple. So, apples and pears it is…
2 Likes
Don’t forget that zarya has a invincible bubble to get her charge where symmetra is completely vulnerable on the other hand.
2 Likes
There is a cooldown of 1 second before she can fire the next projectile so her effective firerate is the same for maximum damage. Sym does get a benefit of this trade in that she can dynamically increase her firerate at the cost of damage an option that Zarya doesn’t possess.
I’m completely aware however that’s not the context OP is giving, he is saying her damage is 180 and Syms is 120 per shot. Which is not correct. Zarya’s damage is half of what is being implied.
Zarya does also suffer from lowered slash damage and it’s not really possible to direct hit 6 players so I believe your best case scenario number is quite a way off for even the most efficiently compact enemy team.
It’s a tradeoff, Zarya cannot hit things in some cases as things like Bridges or Door entrances make certain shots impossible that Symmetra can easily make due to her projectile going forward and not needing to arc - Also the effective range of Sym’s right click is far greater, if you see an unguarded Torb turret at 70 meters away high ground, Zarya can’t hit it but Sym will reliably destroy it.
Yeah I can agree that Zarya definitely has some parallels to Symmetra with her primary and secondary - My main point of my post was to illustrate that the numbers being given were not only heavily biased but also in the case of her secondary fire literally half of what OP had stated.
I don’t think it’s a bad thing to compare Sym to Zarya but people need to be more fair to the reality of the situation, Zarya is inferior to Symmetra at certain tasks and those things should not be ignored.
Zarya is certainly more welcome on teams but the option is never do we take Zarya or Sym, it’s always Zarya vs another tank or Sym vs another DPS. They don’t fight for the same spot on the team and they have very different strengths and weaknesses.
4 Likes
ignores turrets
And yes, they matter.
1 Like
I’m not ignoring the turrets, I factor those into her being a “DPS Character”. However, with any kind of coordination, they might as well not exist.
You might get the occasional cheeky kill from a nest of them, but I doubt seriously a group of coordinated players is going to let them stand there, any more than they’d let a Torbjorn turret fire at them.
So honestly when it comes to DPS contribution, the primary and secondary fires are the mainstay of her damage. Does she get lucky? Sure. Can turrets be skillfully placed so that they’re not destroyed instantly? Sure they can.
If Symmetra were a true DPS worth her slot, you’d see representation in OWL. You don’t.
She ends up being more of a liability than a boon. I have a feeling we’ll see Torbjorn represented in OWL this next go around. Unless Symmetra is fixed, I doubt you’ll see her.
2 Likes
First, you are just bad at turret placement.
Second, we won’t see Torb in OWL. Only the things that aren’t countered, are in OWL. Sure, he’s good against GOATS, so that’s out. But, he himself is countered by range, so he’s also out.
Personally, I see a comeback to double or maybe even triple sniper in OWL.
Well, it’s great to know you’ve got me all figured out. I mean, really. For you to ascertain that I have poor turret placement based off the statements I’ve made, even though I went so far as to state that the turrets CAN be skillfully placed, is a really nifty talent you have.
Then you go on to talk about what the OWL players will, or will not do. Are you a member of the OWL? Do you play on a team? Can you speak for them personally? What about all the newest teams that will be participating the next season? Are you speaking for them as well?
In so far as Torbjorn is concerned, his turret might as well be an afterthought. Sure, it can do damage, but it’s more of a distraction and chip damage than anything else. Torb is powerful based on his ability to give himself 150 armor on demand, and a 30% increase in damage. Add in the fact that he has the added mobility, and his area denial ultimate, and I can guarantee you’ll see him in OWL. If anything, he’ll be present on last point defense, because his ult is so good at area denial.
So, you’re welcome to your opinion. I’m glad you’ve spoken up. I wish you hadn’t done so on the premise of my skills, or lack thereof. You took a solid argument and flushed it down the toilet with the personal attack. I’d appreciate it if further comments in this thread were lacking personal attacks, and instead focused on the gameplay.
2 Likes
Symmetras efficiency is completely based on how lazy or bad your enemy team is. Sure, keeping up turrets in strategic place is important to, but against situationally aware teams she’s kinda joke.
4 Likes
She is never a dps, or support (other than 1.0), or tank.
She is just what she is man, form a 6 stack with ur friends and trust me, you don’t even have to try to win games.
Her primary is weak, no question about it. Anything elsewise, not that much since her value increase exponentially as your team coordination goes up.
Plus, people always underestimated her secondary. Her orb is by far the biggest projectile beside fire strike, and it travels in a straight line.
1 Like