you are eliminating the one element that makes symmetra’s gameplay interesting at a decisive stage. More dinamics for How and where put it.
the shield generator was just a supporting object re-adapted to a pre-existing element in the Symmetra kit. you could literally think of using the same platform to bring up the hologram of a star that allows you to damage anyone who approaches it: it is just the same object with a different function. the shield generator has been removed because it makes no sense in Overwatch gameplay.
do you miss a symmetra that brings companions as support? start coming up with REAL ideas of how to form HP shields in others methods
This is a you issue because a lot of the point of Shield Gen was defending it. Oh and the choice between it and TP.
Which I could agree, Shield Gen needs an alternative.
However, I frankly disagree on the notion that everything needs to be a ZOMG SUPER TWITCH REFLEX OWL PLAYS ability.
Also, lets not pretend that SG ‘‘doesnt make sense’’ in OW because very little makes or doesnt make sense in OW depending on you see it.
If anything, there should be an analysis at why SG was a change so well received to Sym 2.0. SG came in to patch the issues with TP being useless at certain points (to the point where SG was better at every point, not just 2nd points) and also with Symmetra’s own survivability (75hp is nothing to ignore).
Shield Generator was simple and strong, had its fair and obvious share of strengths and weaknesses, and its power was almost entirely on Symmetra’s agency to maximize, and it was strong team power that also buffed Sym’s own dps capacities by giving her the mandatory extra HP a close range her should have.
It was more situational in offense, but it had very good maps where it could be used, like Voskaya offense. There were several maps where you could straight up get it on hard places to reach that got the entire map covered.
At worst, it forced the enemy to be 5 vs 6 for quite a bit, enough to push and win the teamfight.
Like this (around 9:20)
In fact, it was less situational in offense that team TP is right now lmao
I think I disagree with this. Maybe not ‘OMG SUPER TWITCH REFLEX OWL PLAYS’ scale, but every ability should make opportunities for significant plays almost as soon as you use it. It’s why I don’t super like Valkyrie, and Symmetra’s wall has that kind of potential. It lasts over a long duration, allowing for similar planning and usage to SG (because the wall protects you - you need to stay close to it and practically defend the wall’s position or else you lose its massive bonus) and activates quickly over practically an instant. There’s plenty of room for huge plays with it - anything you can block with a barrier you can block with the wall, which is super useful and impactful.
Symmetra 3.0’s wall does all of these things and more. Strengths? TONs of HP, it’ll block everything a barrier can block. Weaknesses? You can’t move it, so if you are forced out of position away from the wall you’ve lost its value. Symmetra places the wall so all of the value she gets from it is only something she has control over. Like shield generator, allies can receive benefits from it as well. Unlike shield generator, the wall interacts way more beautifully in an ultimate fight as opposed to having a super-prolonged smaller amount of value. The wall gives Symmetra an entire barrier to play around, giving her effective HP to push in with and charge her beam without fear of death - I would bet it worked in much the same way as SG did.
Not a very important point but I’ve realized just now how much more positioning-important Symmetra 3.0 is. Her wall requires you to place it smartly enough to stay near it when you need it, and placing a good teleporter is all about proper positioning and predicting experience.
So, we should probably come up with something then.
I did something like this with Moira, I created a rubbish concept, then everyone worked together (plus one guy who insulted everyone) and I created an actually good idea.
Ultiamte barrier with an atrocious uptime does not replace constant 75hp with a potential infinite uptime.
This isnt an issue at all, and its exactly what I mean when I say that not every skill needs to be a teamfight flashy ability.
Please stop trying to oversell Sym 3.0 while backhandedly insulting 2.0. It does not make you sound smarter, I have been on this topic for years.
Going by that logic, I could claim that 2.0 was so much better because she actually had a reflex demanding ability that allowed her to outduel other dps - something that 3.0 utterly lacks since her focus is on enabling TP OWL memes and then getting switched off for a functional DPS.
Two simple things: “nostalgia” and “no shield support in OW”.
“nostalgia” because although sym 3.0 has actually made the gameplay of architech dynamic (even better fitting its concept), it has not created any bridge with those who were extremely in love with symmetra “support”. It is also obvious that by moving it to dps, Symmetra has returned to the fadtidioso problem of the OW queues.
Sym 3.0 created a new lack in OW. we have support of all kinds: those who speed up, those who manage resources in healing or damage, those who provide armor, those who assist without any offensive potential, etc. who was Symmetra originally? the purest concept of non-healing Supoort, but more specifically the “support shield”, the one who helped the companions through the generation of barriers. Sym 1.0 did not work because it was too relegated to a mechanical management system, Sym 2.0 was interesting, but we can safely admit that the shield generator alone was as useless as the TP, depending on the phase in which it was played (attack or defense, moving or stationary). The ideal Sym 3.0 should have been a hero providing shields … simply with a different mechanic, keeping his original identity.
the “revenge” that many seek in Symmetra rework is in not accepting that (unfortunately) the non-healer support does not exist, and inevitably moving it to supporting would only mean giving it a new healing mechanic like the other supports. But what in my opinion is the worst feedback is insisting that if symmetra can come back as support … the SG should return too, which has a huge set of flaws in most situations. here it has nothing to do with rendering Ow too fast , but simply admitting that that mechanic is not good, especially as the only ultimate. on the contrary, the current ultimate can be used regardless of whether you are attacking or defending, moving or stationary with the payload.
Symmetra was a very unique support.
She was the only one who didn’t heal. She was the only one with a barrier until Brig. She was the only one who increased HP until Brig. She was the only one who teleported the team around. She was the only one with a piercing ability. She was the only hero with 2 ults. And she was the only one with a lock on beam.
3.0 made her boring.
Beam=Zarya
Orbs=Phara
TP=Reaper
Sentries=Torb
Ult=Reinhardt
Cut the turrets, give her 2.0 barrier instead, buff her main weapon. Balance that somehow.
That’s what I’ve thought as of late? I’ve thrown around a lot of reworks before, it’s hard to make something good (especially without being able to test it).
It’s got a larger impact over a shorter duration. I think whether or not it does is situation dependent, but the wall is used for basically the same purpose as the shield generator - team protection.
It’s not an issue, I guess, but it could be designed better.
Abilities don’t have to be flashy but abilities that give noticeable impact even on button press feel good to use and, when they have great impact on a fight, they look cool to watch. Practically every ability in the game works like this (though that doesn’t count actual weapons, which I’m not sure how to contextualize with that point), so it would make sense to have abilities that follow in those ideals. Why shouldn’t they?
My apologies. Haven’t played Sym 2.0, so it’s hard for me not to do that. I don’t think everything about Sym 2.0 was bad, but I do think 3.0 was a very large step up in design.
…Also I’m totally overselling 3.0 aren’t I? will dial it down.
Her lock-on beam should stay gone IMO. No one should have a lock-on beam, especially a Support of all people. Though I do like the comparison between her and Zarya. Maybe as a Support, Symmetra’s beam increase in damage based on how many people you’ve helped / how much health you have left. The second point means you get high damage if someone is pressuring you.
Her Secondary Fire is what I said above, but no piercing. It absorbs damage, like a mobile shield, but can also deal damage. This combines her old shield with an attack, so she isn’t just some walking shield dispenser.
Her wall ultimate is probably better because it gives more impact, faster.
Her remaining abilities are Teleporters, Sentries and basically Brigitte’s armour packs, plus whatever new things we come up with. I don’t think we should do healing because I think would love to see a utility Support who can do things, instead of babysitting the DPS.
Also they really recycled everything for Symmetra, huh? Brigitte got a mobile shield generator and projected shield health. Sigma got her old barrier.
Primary is now a fast traveling long range projectile weapon. Deals 30 damage and can be charged like secondary or spammed by mashing key. Increases damage when charged, up to +50 DPS. This weapon will damage nearby enemies near initial target if Symmetra lands a maxed charged shot for 50% damage of initial hit, up to 5 meters near target.
Secondary Changes
Orb Functions similarly to current build but can now can be held infinitely (as long as Ammo permits) and has the Orb hover a little bit in front of Sym. When charging and at Max charge, the Orb will drain ammo overtime. The Orb can damage enemies who touch it relevant to charge level (120 DPS) . This orb will continually damage enemy on contact until released. So think Winston’s Primary.
When released, it flies at 60 m/sec. On impact, it will do the same damage as in live.
Symmetra can now see through the Teleporter and fire all her weapons through the Teleporter.
Turrets will only go on cooldown when destroyed. They are now able to fire when in flight.
Ultimate, on top of the wall, will have Symmetra’s weapon’s always at Maximum Charge for the Ultimate’s duration.
Ok, Symmetra can keep Teleporter, because I think I’ve come up with a way to use it super quickly:
Pressing E will drop all of Symmetra weapons and she pulls up the Teleporter thing. Symmetra can freely press left or right click to launch Orange and Blue Portals respectively. They will be shot out as super fast orbs, like Orisa’s bullets fast. The orbs can either open portals on walls, or place an instant teleporter pad. Symmetra can create as many portals as she like for several seconds, or cancel the timer manually by recasting E. This means she can selfishly teleport herself around, or with a really coordinated team, pull off the trippiest rotation you’ve ever seen. The portals disappear if Symmetra dies.
Symmetra maybe should stay as a Damage. All the Sym mains will get upset about Sym 69.0 flip flopping from Support to Damage, so let’s keep her as a Damage and who knows, we might (probably not) get an actual utility Support.
Primary fire does extra damage against shields and shield health, but does consistent damage otherwise, kinda like a specialised Echo Beam.
Secondary Fire shoots out the orbs that explode on impact and can block damage, but be destroyed if the absorb too much. Damage, orb size and orb health are all based on how much Symmetra charges.
Her Ultimate should stay as the Wall, but maybe be less boring looking? Alternatively, she could have a shield generator that grants a circular shield around it, like the one in the Rio Mission showcase at Blizzcon 2019.
This leaves her Primary Ability slot open.
I’m going to bed soon, so please tell me what you think quickly, otherwise I won’t be able to respond till the morning.
I could see this resulting in a playstyle where theyre used mostly for blocking shots and cooldowns instead of ult charge and recon like currently
this is incredibly powerful. It’s categorically an ultimate, as you’ve described here. I’m not sure any cooldown timer would be appropriate here, if she has shield gen as well.
this would be cool, but los requirements significantly hamper its effectiveness since los of enemies means no ultimate uptime… unless you could teleport it with your E to a highground perch?
Interesting ideas tho. I love that its not that complex and is just a 2.0 and 3.0 chimera. If a rework is to happen, it should be something simple like this. As listed though, it would definitely be OP. Her duelling potential with m1 and m2 plus cd /hs blocking with shift and E would be through the roof, it would have insane internal synergy
The Secondary Fire is more of a defensive ability, so yeah, that’s pretty spot on.
Her Teleporter spam locks her out of her guns and unless you and your 5 clones are playing Overwatch, you’re probably only going to get yourself through a portal. They could also decay and disappear after 5-10 seconds. It could also be used defensively, opening a portal for your Supports to escape through, or for you to teleport to them and protect them.
Oh wait you were talking about that other version, sorry I thought it was my most recent iteration.
Err, yeah that version I realise is way too slow of a playstle for modern Overwatch.
cough